Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-29-2011, 07:42 PM)Gregory I Wrote: Yes. there is significant evidence:

ALL of Romans 9.

9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then[b] it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/b]

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even[b] for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, [/b]and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Which of the Eastern Fathers takes this passage of Paul as seriously as Augustine?

And as Melkite has shown, there are many other passages in Scripture that sway heavily in the other direction. We do not formulate doctrine based on verses of Scripture. That is the same mistake all the great heresiarchs made. They all came armed to the teeth with verses of Scripture that supposedly "proved" their position.

We take Scripture as part of the organic whole of Holy Tradition. That is what Melkite is inquiring about. Does the Augustinian position fit in with the whole of Holy Tradition? All I've seen so far seems to indicate St Augustine was rather novel in his teaching on this matter. The other fathers I've seen quoted so far are either disciples of Augustine or from the same part of Africa. We have other Doctors of the Church such as St John Chrysostom who clearly have a different teaching from St Augustine.

I think we need a wider consensus among the fathers to proclaim Augustine's teaching as the teaching of the Church. I do not believe that consensus exists.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Silouan - 07-29-2011, 10:03 PM

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