Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-30-2011, 01:30 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Look, I find it very intriguing that I am arguing with EASTERN Catholics about this. It seems that you don't think a single person can possibly make a massive contribution to Christian thought. In keeping with your ecclesiology, you do not appear to like any kind of monolithic unitive structures (like the Papacy) but rather the more collegial and dispersed ones. Hence your emphasis that the other Church Fathers do not say what Augustine said. But let's stop here. YOu are CATHOLICS. THat means you are subject to the dogmas of Rome, even if you choose to express them in the terminology of your own theological patrimony. THat's fine. But you CANNOT deny the truth claims ROme makes, nor can you deny the Ordinary magisterium.

I think what makes it so difficult for Easterners to take what one father said, however brilliant he may have been, are things like what St. Paul said, not to receive any other Gospel, even if an angel or he himself should bring it to them.  Or what, I can't remember if it was St. Irenaeus or St. Vincent of Lerins, who said to receive and practice the Catholic Faith as has been always practiced everywhere and by everyone.  This is why such a heavy importance is placed on what the Fathers as a whole believed.  So if there were a plethora of other saints who agreed with St. Augustine, it wouldn't be so worrisome.  If it were a majority, it wouldn't be worrisome at all.  But because we know we are not supposed to believe another Gospel, even if Rome itself should preach it, and we are supposed to believe what was once believed always and everywhere, it sends up HUGE red flags for us to be told the doctrinal definitions of one man, any man, should now be received as divinely revealed dogma, if the body of Fathers seem to show a faith held always and everywhere that contradicted it.

ETA: are you a TLM only Catholic?  The practice of many trads to reject Vatican II, often with the reason given that it preaches a different Gospel, seems to contradict what you said about Popes and Ecumenical Councils holding the primary authority.  It comes across as you saying basically, 'decrees of the Popes and Ecumenical councils are immediate and final, except when they're not.'  You seem to want to bind us to a rule that you (plural, I don't know your own personal circumstances) yourselves don't necessarily follow.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Melkite - 07-30-2011, 06:27 AM

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