Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(08-03-2011, 03:09 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(08-03-2011, 01:54 AM)Gregory I Wrote: There is no natural innocence Doce, correct. Those conceived in this world are all guilty of original sin which deprives us of heaven, and sends us to hell. We have all lost the original holiness and justice in Adam.

AFTER BAPTISM...whole other story.

And of COURSE the BVM and Jesus Christ being the known exceptions.

However, my point in all of this is that MAN CANNOT INITIATE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. And in fact, man can never WILL to initiate a relationship with God. Man does not have the power of intiation, nor does he seek after God in his fallen nature. Therefore, those who are NOT called to salvation are not sitting around going "Oh, man! I wanted to be saved too, but I guess I can't be. Shucks!!!"

They have received what they sought after: Vanity and death. Therefore, it is fitting and just that Hell is their just reward, for they have never turned toward God nor sought after him. THey have only lived for themselves and abide under his wrath, as St.Paul says IN THE BIBLE.

But when God CALLS a man to himself, he strikes the heart of the man with grace; and this grace is delightful man, and he sees it as his highest good, and he wills to turn away from sin, and to follow after god, and to seek to be in the glorious beauty and presence of his being. He seeks, and he longs, and he aches; for he is called, and his will cannot help but respond. Who can resist what  the will sees as the highest good? Not that man is not free; man COULD resist intrinsically. But he will not. He does not IN FACT. THe grace of God is infallible in its effect; for it is the will of God. And who can stand against his will?

I think I know what you are trying to say in your last paragraph and I agree.

Regarding your last paragraph.  Why definition are you using of called?  Could think of a hell of a lot of people who were called that didn't answer the call.  How about every non practicing Catholic?  They were blessed to be born in the faith and have a step up on everybody else in the salvation game and they don't want anything to do with it.

How about Martin Luther?  Dude was a monastic and had all the right pieces in place as well.

How can you say that man could resist but doesn't?  What about our own lives.  Would think that we've all, in one capactity or another- either by being born into traditional catholicism or by finding it after a life of sin- are called to Our Heavenly Father.  Then how do you explain sin?  Have you never sinned since you became Catholic?

Maybe you haven't.  Maybe I'm the only one.  But I don't think so.  How would you explain that Gregory?
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Mithrandylan - 08-03-2011, 11:13 AM



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