Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(08-05-2011, 05:11 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(08-05-2011, 04:59 PM)Doce Me Wrote:
(08-05-2011, 03:31 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: As this relates to efficacious grace:

Efficacious grace is in many ways like the effect produced by the Beatific Vision. They are the same in that both efficacious grace and the Beatific Vision never allow one to be finally condemned or damned to hell. They are different in that one may continue to sin after having received efficacious grace, but one cannot sin after having seen the Beatific Vision. (The infinite chasm between not beholding the face of God and beholding the face of God accounts for this difference.) But even those who still sin (due to fallen human nature) while co-operating with efficacious grace will not turn from God in the end; nor will they choose to finally abandon God. This is not to say that they have forfeited the power of their free will; instead, this is to say that the effects of efficacious are irresistible to the soul created in the image and likeness of God.

I agree with you about the good angels receiving the beatific vision; thanks for the enlightening information from St. Thomas. Your explanations are excellent.

But one can receive efficacious grace once or more, and still be among the damned, if he is not in the state of Sanctifying Grace when he dies.  Unlike the grace given to angels, grace given to man does not guarantee the beatific vision at the end. Grace is to help us efficaciously to holiness in life, which will help us to heaven, but it is not a guarantee of holiness or heaven at the end.

Maybe I'm not following the usual ordering of these posts, but I'm going to copy an earlier post of mine in its entirety here. 

Note I may well be wrong in some of what I say (I certainly need to learn more about efficacious grace and a lot of things), but it is what I think now. Teach me more about efficacious grace from St. Thomas and other reliable Catholic sources if you can.

I am talking about someone who co-operates with efficacious grace, not someone who receives it but then at some point fails to co-operate with it and rejects it (like Solomon). Someone who receives efficacious grace must, by deduction, be co-operating with it when they receive it. Assuming that they continue to co-operate with it and continue receiving it, though they may still be capable of committing sin, they will be saved when they die. These are the elect.

Does that help to clarity what I mean? If not, then I will address the rest of what you have posted.

Ok,  those who die in the state of grace are the elect.  They must have been cooperating with grace at least at the end.  But they may have rejected it during their life,  and later received it  and cooperated again when their sins were forgiven (this could happen many times).  It never assures salvation until they actually die cooperating with it.

But you said first
INPEFESS Wrote:But even those who still sin (due to fallen human nature) while co-operating with efficacious grace will not turn from God in the end; nor will they choose to finally abandon God.

God knows and causes the elect not to turn from God in the end, but from our own point of view we don't see God's plans and there is no guarantee for anyone, not knowing the elect. I think we need to see things from our own point of view sometimes, and how we see one bit at a time.  Efficacious grace comes to us as we stumble through life, and we cooperate for a time and then reject it and later receive and cooperate again. A single grand infusion of some kind of grace in the elect, that makes God irresistible, may have been had by some Saints but I don't believe it it is a general experience.
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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Doce Me - 08-05-2011, 11:29 PM



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