The SSPX Talks With Rome Are Not a Failure
#11
(07-27-2011, 03:02 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: How can you seriously contend that the SSPX is under interdict, when they're practically the only organization in Western Europe that actually obeys and respects the person and office of the Pope?

The Photian Schism took hundreds of years to heal and the most recent one is still in effect.  Church history, much?

History much... yes. Photius and his followers were heretics and rightly considered outside the Church by such definition. Are you contending by such comparison that the SSPX and its founder were heretical or that the body they broke from were heretical?

Why have an argument about it (interdict) for 20 years, when it is easy to verify in the Archbishops own writings. When he got the notice to cease all his priestly activities and was forbidden to say mass, he actually quoted it in a sermon 1970s. I can find it for you if you want. Do you want me to do that for you?

In addition to that, every other week it seems like someone at the Vatican confirms that the SSPX has no priestly mission or jurisdiction to provide sacraments anywhere in the world. Every time there is an SSPX ordination ceremony it is condemned.
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#12
But any cult could make that claim.

An invisible, intangible thing cannot err can it?

How could the Church ever been proven to have erred except through the actions of the men who run it?

And you say "several men" erred.  I think you'll actually find that several men, one of them Archbishop Lefebvre, did not err.  The rest of the hierarchy went with the new springtime hook, line and sinker.
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#13
Part of the problem stems from an exaggerated view of Papal infallibility and the authority of the Magisterium which seems to be what "conservative" Catholics and sedevacantists fall into.
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#14
(07-27-2011, 03:09 PM)ggreg Wrote: If you ignore your reason and your senses and just chant "the church cannot err, the church cannot err", then I cannot see much difference between that and a member of a kool-aid drinking cult like the Branch Davidians.

It is a Doctrine of the Church taught from the mouth of our Lord Jesus that the Church is indefectible. It is one of Her Marks. She is the inviolable Bride of Christ, the "Pillar and Ground of Truth", and infallible in Her teachings. Thus nothing can be taught through Her that is erroneous. If an institution teaches error, then it simply cannot be the Church.
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#15
(07-27-2011, 03:17 PM)obscurus Wrote: Part of the problem stems from an exaggerated view of Papal infallibility and the authority of the Magisterium which seems to be what "conservative" Catholics and sedevacantists fall into.

Every person can error. Every person can choose to obey God or not. Those that choose not to, choose their own end.
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#16
Well the Church is not made solely up of those men. Its everyone who professes and practices the actual foundations of the Faith who are the Church. There are many Catholics who have stayed strong in there faith through all of this...

Also the Church will never fail, so that only leaves men who can fail.
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#17
OK, but from a sceptics perspective where is this HER.

Can I meet HER.  Can I question HER?  Can I hold HER to what she said yesterday ?  Or will the get-out-of-jail-free card of "Oh, that is the fault of bad weak clerics, not HER" always be the defence?
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#18
Well you can't talk to or hold God either...
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#19
(07-27-2011, 03:02 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The Photian Schism took hundreds of years to heal and the most recent one is still in effect. 

Surely you meant to say that it lasted decades.
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#20
obviously the Church isnt a person but a very holy 'construct', a covenant
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