The SSPX Talks With Rome Are Not a Failure
Didn't the Catholic Church shrink down to one bishop and the Holy Mother on the first Good Friday and Holy Saturday?
(07-27-2011, 06:46 PM)ggreg Wrote: How many bishops are there in the organisation currently known as the Catholic Church?

Ukraine, Mexico?  There goes one of the marks, Universal or Catholic.

One?  Are these bishops even talking to each other to the best of your knowledge?

Apostolic and Holy I'll grant you.  But that is two marks.

A minute ago, you were saying 12 would be a stretch :)

Was the early Church limited in Oneness and Catholicity simply because for the first decade it was restricted to countries bordering the Mediterranean? Catholicity has as much to do with time as it does the nooks and crannies of geography does it not? And Unity is an intrinsic property of Faith - that is the beauty of the attribute. You can be united with someone that you have never met nor spoken with two centuries ago, the few Japanese Faithful were one with say the Peruvian Faithful, potentially without recognizing their existence in a discernible way. Although from my personal experiences most traditionalist bishops outside the SSPX work together. It was my experience that the Ukrainians were very much in touch with the Americans and the Mexicans, and whoever else they could reach and and find that shared the Faith.

Just saying what I know and stating my opinion. I realize I don't know everything.
(07-27-2011, 06:49 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Didn't the Catholic Church shrink down to one bishop and the Holy Mother on the first Good Friday and Holy Saturday?

I find that an interesting question. Don't know what to say. They were certainly the only ones showing any visible support to Jesus, bearing witness to their Faith in Him. Everyone else was hiding in fear and most of all doubt... That is why I say it is an interesting thought.
(07-27-2011, 06:56 PM)Aenigmata in Tenebris Wrote: A minute ago, you were saying 12 would be a stretch

It would be.

I don't see how you can lump the SSPX bishops in with SV bishops.  Neither of them recognise the legitimacy of the other.  There goes one of your Marks of the Church for a start.  They are not ONE.

12 genuinely and unarguably and unDOUBTedly Catholic Bishops in the mainstream Catholic Church???????????  Tell me who they are.
I lump them together because they will all give you the same answers if you ask them any question on Faith and morals, but I can see why some people wish to separate them. I know there is a lot of "the pot calling the kettle black". They all decry the idolatry of Assisi, although they are prompted to react differently because of it. I could fall to either side - I have made my opinions (or indecision) plain in this blog. I don't claim to have all answers. As long as I can make decisions where I don't condone idolatry, I will take my time with my choices.

In Mexico, there is Bp Martin Davila, Bp Jose *something*, and at least one bishop with Sociedad de Trento.
In the US... Bp McKenna, Bp Neville, and Bp Sandborn; Bp Kelly and Bp Santay; Bp Pivarunas and Bp Dolan.
I know there were several sede privationists while Bp de Lauriers was alive but I don't know the state very much in Europe nowadays other than the countries are all pro-choice and pro-gay... not unlike our own sadly.

As a side note, I learned that Bp de Laurier worked on the wording of the Bull declaring the Assumption. Taught at the Lateran University until going to Econe and teaching for the SSPX upon its founding. Bp Castro d Meyer thought the world of him, I know that much.
But they would tell you they are not united or "one" and therefore they cannot be the church because they lack one of its marks.
Seems to me if you're going to admit that the Catholic Church can persist despite having almost no human adherents, that St. Athanasius can awake one day and find the whole Church to be Arrian.

You don't seem to want to know where the Church is, you seem to presume It doesn't exist and probably couldn't be persuaded that It does, because your criteria are so rarified and brittle, they're inaccessible.

If I were to criticize one thing about self-described "Trads", I think they're small-minded, occasionally perverse and invariably provincial.

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