Who killed more Catholics?
#21
I'm not sure how the final tally comes out but don't forget Muslim Indonesia's war on East Timor in which almost 200,000 people were killed by genocide or starvation in a country that is 90% Catholic.

C.
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#22
(07-28-2011, 05:50 PM)Cetil Wrote: I'm not sure how the final tally comes out but don't forget Muslim Indonesia's war on East Timor in which almost 200,000 people were killed by genocide or starvation in a country that is 99% Catholic.

C.

Oh, it's still going on all over the world! On a large or small scale in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, etc. :(
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#23
(07-28-2011, 05:56 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(07-28-2011, 05:50 PM)Cetil Wrote: I'm not sure how the final tally comes out but don't forget Muslim Indonesia's war on East Timor in which almost 200,000 people were killed by genocide or starvation in a country that is 99% Catholic.

C.

Oh, it's still going on all over the world! On a large or small scale in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, etc. :(


Is it Somalia where Arab Muslims also rape the women of child-bearing age in order to breed half-Arab children?  They're like cuckoos and cowbirds that lay their eggs in other birds' nests, letting the other birds do all the work of feeding the nestlings.  I would guess they plan to take those children from their mothers some day. The Arab terrorists are called something like ganjaweeds but they probably never heard of Bob Marley or the Rastafarians.

Okay, search shows it's not Somalia, but Sudan, and the bad guys are called Janjaweed.

"In Sudan, it is estimated that over 1.5 million Christians have been killed by the Janjaweed, the Arab Muslim militia, and even suspected Islamists in northern Sudan since 1984.[167] It should also be noted that Sudan's several civil wars (which often take the form of genocidal campaigns) are often not only or purely religious in nature, but also ethnic, as many black Muslims, as well as Muslim Arab tribesmen, have also been killed in the conflicts."

"It is estimated that as many as 200,000 people had been taken into slavery during the Second Sudanese Civil War. The slaves are mostly Dinka people.[1"]"

Wikipedia has a long article on the persecution of Christians, from which I copied the above info.  I clcked to the article on the Dinka people, learned that their tribal religion included belief in one god and many became Christian after the war.

I did not realize that thousands of Catholics were killed for their religion during the Spanish Civil War.  The article shows a photo of a republican firing squad "executing" the Sacred Heart of Jesus  (a large statue at some distance from the firing squad).  How crazy is that?  And how sick to want to execute the Sacred Heart.


"Persecution of Catholics mostly, before and at the beginning, of the Spanish Civil war, involved the murder of almost 7,000 priests and other clergy, as well as thousands of lay people, by sections of nearly all the leftist groups because of their faith.[80][81] The Republican government which had come to power in Spain in 1931 was strongly anti-Catholic, prohibiting religious education – even in private school, prohibiting any education by religious orders, seizing Church property and expelling the Jesuits from the country. On 3 June 1933 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Dilectissima Nobis, in which he described the expropriation of all Church buildings, episcopal residences, parish houses, seminaries and monasteries. By law, they became property of the Spanish State, to which the Church had to pay rent and taxes in order to continuously use these properties. "Thus the Catholic Church is compelled to pay taxes on what was violently taken from her"[82] Religious vestments, liturgical instruments, statues, pictures, vases, gems and similar objects necessary for worship were expropriated as well or desecrated.[83] Numerous churches and temples were destroyed by burning, after they were nationalized. All private Catholic schools from religious orders and Congregations were expropriated. The purpose was to create solely secular schools there instead.[84] Pope Pius XI, who faced similar persecutions in the USSR and Mexico, called on Spanish Catholics to defend themselves against the persecution with all legal means."

"During the Spanish Civil War of 1936–1939, and especially in the early months of the conflict, individual clergymen and entire religious communities were executed by leftists, which included communists and anarchists. The death toll of the clergy alone included 13 bishops, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, 2,364 monks and friars and 283 nuns, for a total of 6,832 clerical victims.[80]"

"In addition to murders of clergy and the faithful, destruction of churches and desecration of sacred sites and objects were widespread. On the night of 19 July 1936 alone, some fifty churches were burned.[85] In Barcelona, out of the 58 churches, only the Cathedral was spared, and similar desecrations occurred almost everywhere in Republican Spain.[86] Exceptions were Biscay and Guipuscoa where the Christian Democratic Basque Nationalist Party, after some hesitation, supported the Republic while halting persecution in the areas held by the Basque Government. All Catholic churches in the Republican zone were closed[citation needed]. The desecration was not limited to Catholic churches, as synagogues and Protestant churches were also pillaged and closed. Some small Protestant churches were spared.[87]"

"The terror has been called the "most extensive and violent persecution of Catholicism in Western History, in some way even more intense than that of the French Revolution." [88] The persecution drove Catholics to the Nationalists, even more than would have been expected, as these defended their religious interests and survival.[88]
"

lots more at  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians


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#24
'We' have.  There have been over 60 million abortions in the US since Roe v. Wade.  Assuming 20% Catholic - thats 12 million Catholics snuffed out before they could be baptized.  Since non-Catholic baptisms are also considered valid you can probably double that number.  Add in the rest of the world and the numbers would become soul crushingly devastating. 

I must note that, on a personal side note, that the economic crises of the world are peaking basically 40 years after the countries of the West legalized abortion.  If that isn't a call to repent I do not know what is...
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#25
(07-28-2011, 10:43 PM)geogeer Wrote: efore they could be baptized. 

As horrible as it is it has nothing to do with this discussion. As you point out they were unbaptised and ergo were not Catholic. The question is who has killed the most Catholics?




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#26
(07-28-2011, 04:30 PM)JCCMADD Wrote: STALIN AND MAO!

Yeah I would have said marxism too.  From the Black Book of Communism the breakdown of the number of deaths given by Courtois (the author) is as follows:

    65 million in the People's Republic of China
    20 million in the Soviet Union
    2 million in Cambodia
    2 million in North Korea
    1.7 million in Africa
    1.5 million in Afghanistan
    1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
    1 million in Vietnam
    150,000 in Latin America
    10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."

He cites a death toll which totals 94 million.  This would all be in the 20th century too.  Actually I've read elsewhere that the count for the Soviet Union is over 60 million.  Obviously these weren't all Catholics though.

Is the count for abortions world wide higher?   
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#27
Are we speaking of bodies or souls?
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#28
(07-28-2011, 11:15 PM)mikemac Wrote:
(07-28-2011, 04:30 PM)JCCMADD Wrote: STALIN AND MAO!

Yeah I would have said marxism too.  From the Black Book of Communism the breakdown of the number of deaths given by Courtois (the author) is as follows:

    65 million in the People's Republic of China
    20 million in the Soviet Union
    2 million in Cambodia
    2 million in North Korea
    1.7 million in Africa
    1.5 million in Afghanistan
    1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
    1 million in Vietnam
    150,000 in Latin America
    10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."

He cites a death toll which totals 94 million.  This would all be in the 20th century too.  Actually I've read elsewhere that the count for the Soviet Union is over 60 million.  Obviously these weren't all Catholics though.   
Well, taking the 94 million (60 million sounds way too high for the USSR to me and I studied Soviet history in university), the overwhelming majority of the 65 million in China, the two million in Cambodia, the two million in North Korea and the 1.5 million in Afghanistan, were undoubtedly not Catholic. Allowing for, say 20 million in the USSR, high because of the Hlodomor,  all the one million in Eastern Europe, tho' many were Orthodox, alf of the one million in VietNam and all the Latin American deaths, we probably have a total of just under 25 million Catholics killed by the Marxists.

Not good, but I think it would still pale next to the slaughters of Catholics over the 1500 years by the followers of the paedophile.
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#29
(07-28-2011, 11:20 PM)Magdalene Wrote: Are we speaking of bodies or souls?

Bodies of baptised Catholics.
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#30
(07-28-2011, 12:14 AM)Walty Wrote: You have to define your question.  Are we talking like how many people have been put to death publically, or how many souls have been lost? 

Technically, in this case it would be how many souls had been saved because of martyrdom ;) 
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