The heresy of Americanism!
#11
(07-29-2011, 12:31 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:27 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

Ok.  But it doesn't mean whatever Servire Deo says it means.  Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

That said, I'm up for talking about switching to a new government.  Something with some limits on who's in charge.

What have I said that the Supreme Court hasn't?
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#12
(07-29-2011, 12:33 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:31 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:27 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

Ok.  But it doesn't mean whatever Servire Deo says it means.  Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

That said, I'm up for talking about switching to a new government.  Something with some limits on who's in charge.

What have I said that the Supreme Court hasn't?

It's a question of what is in the Constitution versus what the SCOTUS says about the constitution. Here, the problem is with the interpretation, not the document.
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#13
(07-29-2011, 12:45 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:33 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:31 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:27 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

Ok.  But it doesn't mean whatever Servire Deo says it means.  Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

That said, I'm up for talking about switching to a new government.  Something with some limits on who's in charge.

What have I said that the Supreme Court hasn't?

It's a question of what is in the Constitution versus what the SCOTUS says about the constitution. Here, the problem is with the interpretation, not the document.

I would reiterate but it would be pointless.
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#14
(07-29-2011, 03:22 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

So? ... That's not what Americanism is by a long shot. One can certainly be a supporter of the Republican Party and uphold the Constitution as one of the basis for any legitimate law in this country and still be a faithful Catholic. Americanism was/is primarily a movement to sever and divorce the Church from the affairs of the State.

In addition, it would seem that one of the underlying principles in your comment is that the U.S. Constitution is incompatible with Catholicism. Am I wrong in this deduction or, if not, where does the Constitution contradict Catholic teachings?

This.
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#15
(07-29-2011, 12:49 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:45 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:33 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:31 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:27 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: Hey bud, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

Ok.  But it doesn't mean whatever Servire Deo says it means.  Sorry to burst your bubble but that's how it is.

That said, I'm up for talking about switching to a new government.  Something with some limits on who's in charge.

What have I said that the Supreme Court hasn't?

It's a question of what is in the Constitution versus what the SCOTUS says about the constitution. Here, the problem is with the interpretation, not the document.

I would reiterate but it would be pointless.

Indeed.
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#16
(07-29-2011, 12:23 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 12:11 PM)Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:22 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

So? ... That's not what Americanism is by a long shot. One can certainly be a supporter of the Republican Party and uphold the Constitution as one of the basis for any legitimate law in this country and still be a faithful Catholic. Americanism was/is primarily a movement to sever and divorce the Church from the affairs of the State.

In addition, it would seem that one of the underlying principles in your comment is that the U.S. Constitution is incompatible with Catholicism. Am I wrong in this deduction or, if not, where does the Constitution contradict Catholic teachings?

The part in the 1st Amendment than demands freedom of religion.

Have you ever actually read the first amendment?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The point is that the government can't stop you from praying and it can't force you to be a heretical Anglican.  Maybe you would prefer that Barack Obama be the leader of some kind of American church? (You may argue that he is the head of the Church of Relative Indifferentism, and I wouldn't stop you)

Here's the crux of Americanism: the Church saw that people were taking the American model of religious freedom and saying that it should be applied in traditionally Catholic countries. That part is wrong. But where religious freedom protects people from heresy, then it is right. "Americanism" wasn't an attack on American freedom-- just the misapplication of it against Truth. Freedom can either serve Truth or attack it. Where it guards people from evil, it's not there heresy of Americanism.

Servire Deo Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:38 AM)Baskerville Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 03:11 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I noticed there are plenty of die hard Republicans here who'll fight tooth and nail for the Constitution. 

Is your preference one of die hard democrats who fight tooth and nail for abortion?

The right to get an abortion is in the Constitution. Servicemen take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.

It's not actually in there , no matter how many times I read it (nor is "privacy", which is what abortion hinges on).  I know, I know... tell it to the justices... But a bad interpretation does not an abortion clause make.

Oh sure, the Constitution IF followed by politicians could theoretically protect the Catholic faith from the State, but it also protects false creeds (theistic and anti-theistic), which if left unchecked could easily overthrow a government and impose any laws they wish on our one true Faith.

Power and authority are from God.  If they are not steered towards furthering God's will "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" then what fate should we expect of America other than that of any other empire that displeased Him throughout history?

Gay marriage, is there anything in the Constitution on that?  As far as I know, its perfectly constitutional.  The Constitution is just one more flawed document, not to be held in any great regard by Catholics.

Polygamy, beastiality and other abominations are most likely Constitutional.  Nothing in there preventing them.
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#17
(07-29-2011, 04:58 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Oh sure, the Constitution IF followed by politicians could theoretically protect the Catholic faith from the State, but it also protects false creeds (theistic and anti-theistic), which if left unchecked could easily overthrow a government and impose any laws they wish on our one true Faith.

Power and authority are from God.  If they are not steered towards furthering God's will "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" then what fate should we expect of America other than that of any other empire that displeased Him throughout history?

Gay marriage, is there anything in the Constitution on that?  As far as I know, its perfectly constitutional.  The Constitution is just one more flawed document, not to be held in any great regard by Catholics.

Polygamy, beastiality and other abominations are most likely Constitutional.  Nothing in there preventing them.

You confuse the point, so I'll slow it down for you:

IMHO, the best form of government is a Catholic Confessional Monarchy, so I understand the problems with a permissive constitution.

But. the USA's version of Christianity is decidedly Protestant-- so if the USA were going to establish a religion, it would be heresy.

Therefore, the American constitution protects Catholics.  It also has nothing to do with Americanism, which is when Catholics try to use the American model of freedom to usurp Catholic morality in traditionally Catholic countries.

Here it protects us.  Other places it would ruin us.
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#18
(07-29-2011, 05:13 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 04:58 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Oh sure, the Constitution IF followed by politicians could theoretically protect the Catholic faith from the State, but it also protects false creeds (theistic and anti-theistic), which if left unchecked could easily overthrow a government and impose any laws they wish on our one true Faith.

Power and authority are from God.  If they are not steered towards furthering God's will "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" then what fate should we expect of America other than that of any other empire that displeased Him throughout history?

Gay marriage, is there anything in the Constitution on that?  As far as I know, its perfectly constitutional.  The Constitution is just one more flawed document, not to be held in any great regard by Catholics.

Polygamy, beastiality and other abominations are most likely Constitutional.  Nothing in there preventing them.

You confuse the point, so I'll slow it down for you:

IMHO, the best form of government is a Catholic Confessional Monarchy, so I understand the problems with a permissive constitution.

But. the USA's version of Christianity is decidedly Protestant-- so if the USA were going to establish a religion, it would be heresy.

Therefore, the American constitution protects Catholics.  It also has nothing to do with Americanism, which is when Catholics try to use the American model of freedom to usurp Catholic morality in traditionally Catholic countries.

Here it protects us.  Other places it would ruin us.

Its only delaying the inevitable and dragging plenty of Catholics down with it.
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#19
(07-29-2011, 08:28 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 05:13 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(07-29-2011, 04:58 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Oh sure, the Constitution IF followed by politicians could theoretically protect the Catholic faith from the State, but it also protects false creeds (theistic and anti-theistic), which if left unchecked could easily overthrow a government and impose any laws they wish on our one true Faith.

Power and authority are from God.  If they are not steered towards furthering God's will "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" then what fate should we expect of America other than that of any other empire that displeased Him throughout history?

Gay marriage, is there anything in the Constitution on that?  As far as I know, its perfectly constitutional.  The Constitution is just one more flawed document, not to be held in any great regard by Catholics.

Polygamy, beastiality and other abominations are most likely Constitutional.  Nothing in there preventing them.

You confuse the point, so I'll slow it down for you:

IMHO, the best form of government is a Catholic Confessional Monarchy, so I understand the problems with a permissive constitution.

But. the USA's version of Christianity is decidedly Protestant-- so if the USA were going to establish a religion, it would be heresy.

Therefore, the American constitution protects Catholics.  It also has nothing to do with Americanism, which is when Catholics try to use the American model of freedom to usurp Catholic morality in traditionally Catholic countries.

Here it protects us.  Other places it would ruin us.

Its only delaying the inevitable and dragging plenty of Catholics down with it.

Delays the inevitable what?
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#20
The modern world's collapse.
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