Father Villa and JP2
#21
(08-03-2011, 08:51 AM)ggreg Wrote: Let's face it.  The NO religion is a different faith where rationality and truth and common sense are either entirely absent or made inert by a giant rubber sheath being placed over them.

I almost want to put that in my signature box.
Reply
#22
(08-02-2011, 05:34 PM)maso Wrote: John XXIII, Paul VI and JPII were perjurers and a lot of cardinals bishops and priests ordained before the council too. So don't ask why the modernism has spread everywhere in the Church since the oath against modernism was cancelled by Paul VI.
In doing so the Pope had the merit to make that hypocrisy ceasing.
Now Modernism looks as respectable as if it had never been condemned. People think, speak and behave without having a clue of what is modernism.

But the Pope does not have the power to release people from an oath retrospectively.  If JP2 took the oath in the 1940s then he was bound by it for at least 30 years until the 1970s when Paul VI cancelled it.

You'd need to obey the oath until it was cancelled, surely?

So either way JP2 cannot rationally be "blessed" since once again we have no evidence that he repented from his modernism while it was still condemned.

If the Pope has a free pass to do anything he likes then in effect mutable truth is the true state of affairs.  But that truth is mutable too, so it isn't.  Welcome to Cafe Confusion.

I do wish the Trad thinkers would at least attempt to square these circles.  Everyone either runs away from addressing it, labels people SV for asking questions that need to be asked or says, "it's a mystery", which is a bit of a cop-out.

"Mush minds" are bad, except when they save answering awkward dilemmas.
Reply
#23
(08-03-2011, 12:32 PM)ggreg Wrote: I do wish the Trad thinkers would at least attempt to square these circles.  Everyone either runs away from addressing it, labels people SV for asking questions that need to be asked or says, "it's a mystery", which is a bit of a cop-out.

What specific "Trad thinkers" are you referring to??  AFAIK, the SSPX and most of the FSSP clergy and followers of that group tell it like it is and don;t  "cop-out."

I don't personally know any Trads who label us SV.....Anyone who labels you a SV is either a NeoCon, "Neo-Catholic", or someone in those camps. At least that is what  I thought.
Reply
#24
I've never read or heard an explanation of this contradiction that leaves me satisfied.

"It is either we don't know, persevere".  Fine for a while, but this wears thin because the contradiction now spans generations.  I could spend another 35 years till I die, just persevering with a contradiction.  Why should I persevere if there are contradictions and rational reasons to have doubts.  Do you persevere with painting the fence or cutting the grass if you think rain is coming?  No, because you don't want to waste your time.  The doubts due to the contradiction kill my perseverance.

Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.

Or, "We are really the Church, and we behave like we think we are the Church, but will pay lip service to those modernists in Rome being the Church because otherwise we pull the foundation of our own credibility".  Nobody will believe we are the Church, even though really we think we are".  "They are wrong and we are right, but we will still, notionally at least, report into them and play pretend games that they have authority over us, which actually have almost no material effect on the way we run whatsoever.  So let's humour them and see what happens".  Commonly know as the Cardboard Pope.

Or, "Things are not really as black and white as you paint them to be.  The Pope and Hierarchy don't strictly and legalistically speaking contradict anything because it is all just their opinion and nothing is defined and declared. This is a cop out because if Rome never defined anything again (and why would you when you believe in mutable truth?), then the contradiction could go on forever.

Or. " Roll on the Chastisement."  Which while my favourite is not really an answer either.  The only kind of answer the Chastisement is, is that when it happens nobody still alive afterwards will remember what the question was.
Reply
#25
(08-03-2011, 01:13 PM)ggreg Wrote: Or. " Roll on the Chastisement."  Which while my favourite is not really an answer either.  The only kind of answer the Chastisement is, is that when it happens nobody still alive afterwards will remember what the question was.

Yeah, that is my favorite one too...Yeah, I do hear that one a lot too!
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)