Pacifism

[jovan66102]

But again, I think you miss the principle of the issue.

And I think you miss the principles of English grammar.

[Gorgondie]

i think everyones missing the principle of this thread

[jovan66102]

But again, I think you miss the principle of the issue.

And I think you miss the principles of English grammar.

***Edited to add***

Unless, of course, you believe that the God damned Muslims worship the same God we do and can find salvation in their infidelity, in which case you might be right.

[Gorgondie]

you guys managed to derail a whole thread before it was even able to accumalate more then 2 posts

[jovan66102]

you guys managed to derail a whole thread before it was even able to accumalate more then 2 posts

That's nothing new here. However, to the original post, have you considered soldier saints such as the Theban Legion? They did not refuse to fight and, indeed, were on their way to the front when they were martyred for refusing to sacrifice to the Emperor.

[INPEFESS]

But again, I think you miss the principle of the issue.

And I think you miss the principles of English grammar.

***Edited to add***

Unless, of course, you believe that the God damned Muslims worship the same God we do and can find salvation in their infidelity, in which case you might be right.

No, you are confusing the issue by adding your own qualifiers to what was said to make distinctions to mitigate and cover up what was said.

The word calls upon God, in vain, to judge as damned, indiscriminately and without qualification, all Muslims, even those who are yet living. "Principles of grammar" cannot cover this up, no matter how much that may be desirable.

Doesn't the Christian religion teach that you're supposed to be praying for their conversion before they go to the judgment seat of God, not calling upon God, in vain, to judge them as damned on account of the fact that they have so far presumably resisted His grace? Isn't there a commandment against calling upon God in vain in any context, let alone to call upon Him in vain to judge as damned those to whom we should beg that He show mercy? God has been merciful with us; we should pray that He shows them as much mercy as He has shown us instead of invoking God's wrath to judge those whom He has willed should yet have more time to repent.

[jovan66102]

INPEFESS, no one implied that we should not pray for their conversion. Wulfrano stated a fact and you're trying to make it out that he was calling down curses on them. Not so.

[LausTibiChriste]

Pacifism is for sissies and Prots.

[wulfrano]

Do not use that word, even if you don't actually intend what it intends by its meaning. It invokes the name of God in vain to curse human beings.

He did not say 'God damn the Muslims'. He simply stated the truth that they are damned by God unless they leave their errors and find the true Faith.

This is a Catholic forum. You can justify it in your own mind any way you see fit, but it is a word that is formulated to deliver a curse. Pointing out what he did not say doesn't make taking the name of God in vain to consider someone preemptively damned any more right.

I could say, "God damn it" in reference to my pen, and you could argue that there is no harm done because my pencil is a non-sentient object.

But again, I think you miss the principle of the issue.

@ Inpefess.

OK.  I'll rephrase it.  "When those wonderful sons of Mahomet who adore the god-moon-devil Astaroth wanted to invade Europe in order to  make it either muslim or destroy it, they were defeated in a bloody, furious and savage  naval battle at Lepanto, thanks to the coalition of catholic princes under the guidance of John of Austria, and mainly to the  approval and prayers of Pope St. Pius V who is in Heaven righrt now.

Is that better Inpefess?

[wulfrano]

But again, I think you miss the principle of the issue.

And I think you miss the principles of English grammar.

***Edited to add***

Unless, of course, you believe that the God damned Muslims worship the same God we do and can find salvation in their infidelity, in which case you might be right.

Bravo, Jovan!  That's telling it like it is!  And while you are at it, you might as well throw in the perfidious jews, the hinduism idolaters, the atheistic buddhists, the heretical Protestants, the ignorant pagans, the satanic masons, the evolutionists, the communists, etc.