New Sungenis vs Dimond debate
#41
Bump?
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#42
(09-01-2011, 07:11 PM)Gregory I Wrote: You don't understand: There has been no valid Pope since Pius XII, so there are no new theologians.

One could say that, based on the application of the Church's perennial teachings, and based upon the facts as best one can know them, it makes rational sense to hold this as a valid, Church-approved theological opinion. But you cannot declare this with absolute certainty as though it were a matter of objective fact already settled by the magisterium.

(09-04-2011, 02:59 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Bump?

The boldness of your assertion is probably why no-one has responded.
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#43
If we are allowed to hold an opinion as true, are we not allowed to teach it as true? The Dominicans teach Thomism, the Jesuits teach Congruism: So theose whoa re allowed to hold the holy see as Vacant are allowed to teach this to others as well, and defend it as the truth until proven otherwise, no?
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#44
(09-01-2011, 07:11 PM)Gregory I Wrote: You don't understand: There has been no valid Pope since Pius XII, so there are no new theologians.

I DO pick and choose: I CHOOSE the unanimous consent of orthodox theologians and REJECT the modernists.

This is called common sense.

THe other thing is called blind obedience, which is tacit stupidity.

Yes.

"Why cast yourself over a cliff, deciding in your writings about things of which you are ignorant? Why do you not keep to what you have received from the Fathers and Doctors of the Church? You introduce novelties!" - Eusebius of Caesaria
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#45
(09-04-2011, 01:46 PM)Gregory I Wrote: If we are allowed to hold an opinion as true, are we not allowed to teach it as true?

Because an opinion is not the same as an objective fact.

I might have an opinion about something that doesn't contradict the faith, and MAY objectively be true (known only to God), but I can't proclaim that it is unless I KNOW it to be FACT (rather than mere opinion). Unless the Church has proclaimed it, or God has divinely revealed it to you, you cannot teach what you don't know to be an objective fact.

Quote:The Dominicans teach Thomism, the Jesuits teach Congruism: So theose whoa re allowed to hold the holy see as Vacant are allowed to teach this to others as well, and defend it as the truth until proven otherwise, no?

That's because the Church has approved their opinions. The Church has approved the opinion of sedevacantism in general (that it could happen), so that much you are permitted to teach; but the Church hasn't applied that teaching to the specific popes to which you implicitly referred in your post, so you can't teach it as though it is an already-settled magisterial fact. The reason is that we can't possibly have all the facts necessary to make the sort of decision the Church would make in such a situation; nor do we have the security guaranteed by direct guidance from the Holy Ghost.

So the possibility as a valid opinion is O.K. The valid opinion applied as logical, reasonable, and not contrary to the faith is O.K. But the valid opinion applied as an objective fact in today's circumstance that we can teach as though it were already settled is not O.K. because we need the authority of the Church's decision in order to be secure in the declaration that the contemporary application of the valid opinion (that it could happen) is a matter of objective fact.

We can teach that the Church has taught that it is possible. We can even teach that the contemporary application of it is the only logical conclusion and does not contradict the Faith. However, we cannot teach that its application in today's circumstance is a matter of doctrinal fact (and, hence, must be accepted) since only the Church can ratify such an application. We, however, can not be faulted for operating according to the moral certainty guaranteed by privately maintaining the valid theological opinion as a possible (and even reasonable) explanation for the crisis today.
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#46
(08-15-2011, 11:47 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: I cry myself to sleep every night thinking about how far we have fallen, and keep falling.

......... really? I looked at your profile, and you're even younger than I am. People are supposed to envy our energy, good looks and optimism. With that mentality, 60 will be the new 30 for you.

Rather than crying, I would propose two things: 1.) If you're married, make love to your wife vigorously. 2.) If you're not married, then be a part of the solution, i.e. join the clerical caste.
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#47
(09-05-2011, 04:01 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(08-15-2011, 11:47 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: I cry myself to sleep every night thinking about how far we have fallen, and keep falling.

......... really? I looked at your profile, and you're even younger than I am. People are supposed to envy our energy, good looks and optimism. With that mentality, 60 will be the new 30 for you.

Rather than crying, I would propose two things: 1.) If you're married, make love to your wife vigorously. 2.) If you're not married, then be a part of the solution, i.e. join the clerical caste.

Option 3.) Pray.
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#48
(09-05-2011, 04:04 AM)INPEFESS Wrote: Option 3.) Pray.

Well, that goes without saying for all Christians regardless of their state in life. But yes, do pray.
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#49
I like option 1.
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#50
(09-05-2011, 05:21 AM)ggreg Wrote: I like option 1.

You hound.  ;)
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