Poll: Which ancient Liturgy do you prefer
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Ancient Liturgy Preference (only respond if you have attended both)
#91
(10-04-2011, 05:45 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 05:44 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 03:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-02-2011, 05:32 PM)paul11b Wrote: What is it? Is it a Catholic service?

Yes, it's the Eastern Catholic Mass.

They call it "Divine Liturgy."

You know, I used to get so pissed off when I heard people refer to it as a byzantine mass, yet I read the last two posts, and nothing angry stirred in me.  You people must be rubbing off on me :(

Why did you get "pissed off"?

"Mass" is used in the sense of liturgy. It's analogous.

I know.  But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.  I guess it was the fact that people were ignorant enough of the Eastern way of doing things that they didn't know we don't call it mass.  For some reason, this time it just didn't bother me at all.
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#92
The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.
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#93
(10-04-2011, 09:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.

It's a tolerable name regardless of rite.  It's appropriate in the Roman rite alone.
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#94
(10-04-2011, 11:21 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 09:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.

It's a tolerable name regardless of rite.  It's appropriate in the Roman rite alone.

It is the proper theological term for the unbloody renewal of Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, regardless of rite.
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#95
(10-04-2011, 07:32 PM)Melkite Wrote: But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.

We have many imported Greek words in our Latin and Latin derived vocabularies.

Why can't it be the other way around too?
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#96
(10-05-2011, 12:28 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 07:32 PM)Melkite Wrote: But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.

We have many imported Greek words in our Latin and Latin derived vocabularies.

Why can't it be the other way around too?

Because the Greek speaking apostles brought the Gospel to the Latin West, not Latin speaking apostles bringing the Gospel to the Greek East.

(10-04-2011, 11:31 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 11:21 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 09:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.

It's a tolerable name regardless of rite.  It's appropriate in the Roman rite alone.

It is the proper theological term for the unbloody renewal of Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, regardless of rite.

Incorrect.
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#97
(10-05-2011, 12:31 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-05-2011, 12:28 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 07:32 PM)Melkite Wrote: But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.

We have many imported Greek words in our Latin and Latin derived vocabularies.

Why can't it be the other way around too?

Because the Greek speaking apostles brought the Gospel to the Latin West, not Latin speaking apostles bringing the Gospel to the Greek East.

:shrug:

The use of Latin, Greek, Church Slavonic, Syriac or even the vernacular tongue in the different rites of the Church has nothing to do with the Apostles.

Either way, I was talking about the mutual enrichment of Latin and Greek.
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#98
(10-05-2011, 12:33 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: :shrug:

The use of Latin, Greek, Church Slavonic, Syriac or even the vernacular tongue in the different rites of the Church has nothing to do with the Apostles.

Either way, I was talking about the mutual enrichment of Latin and Greek.

It's not specifically about the Apostles, but which preceded which?  The Greeks also brought Christianity to the Slavs, so you find Greek words in the Slavonic liturgy but no Slavonic words in the Greek liturgy.  In a sense, perhaps it is that if the Greek liturgy were to adopt Latin words, that would imply the liturgy which the Latins received was imperfect.  But the Latins (or whoever received it) can't improve upon it in this sense, because they received it, they didn't create it.  In the same sense that we can't take what God made and make it better.
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#99
(10-05-2011, 12:31 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-05-2011, 12:28 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 07:32 PM)Melkite Wrote: But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.

We have many imported Greek words in our Latin and Latin derived vocabularies.

Why can't it be the other way around too?

Because the Greek speaking apostles brought the Gospel to the Latin West, not Latin speaking apostles bringing the Gospel to the Greek East.

(10-04-2011, 11:31 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 11:21 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 09:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.

It's a tolerable name regardless of rite.  It's appropriate in the Roman rite alone.

It is the proper theological term for the unbloody renewal of Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, regardless of rite.

Incorrect.

No, completely correct. The Council of Trent had no intentions of limiting its definition of the nature of the Mass to the Roman rite; it used the term "Mass" discuss the essence of the Eucharistic Sacrifice, which is the same in every Catholic rite.
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(10-05-2011, 01:28 AM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(10-05-2011, 12:31 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-05-2011, 12:28 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 07:32 PM)Melkite Wrote: But it comes from a Latin word, and latin has never been a part of our patrimony.

We have many imported Greek words in our Latin and Latin derived vocabularies.

Why can't it be the other way around too?

Because the Greek speaking apostles brought the Gospel to the Latin West, not Latin speaking apostles bringing the Gospel to the Greek East.

(10-04-2011, 11:31 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 11:21 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 09:56 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: The Council of Trent refers in its dogmatic definitions to the Eucharistic Sacrifice as the Mass. It seems like an appropriate name regardless of rite.

It's a tolerable name regardless of rite.  It's appropriate in the Roman rite alone.

It is the proper theological term for the unbloody renewal of Christ's Sacrifice on Calvary, regardless of rite.

Incorrect.

No, completely correct. The Council of Trent had no intentions of limiting its definition of the nature of the Mass to the Roman rite; it used the term "Mass" discuss the essence of the Eucharistic Sacrifice, which is the same in every Catholic rite.

Why does this matter?

Easterners say Liturgy, Westerners say Mass.

We're both talking about the same thing...

I don't think Melkite is doing anything wrong in preferring one word over the other.
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