Vatican Offers SSPX Ordinariate

[The_Harlequin_King]

So basically the lesson here is that no matter what Pope Benedict does people will complain. 

Yep.

[Someone1776]

From La Stampa

The proposal which has been studied by the Vatican, would allow Lefebvrists the establishment of an ordinariate similar to that offered by the Pope has to Anglicans who wanted to come into communion with the Roman Catholic Church. In this way, the Fraternity would depend on the Holy See (and specifically on the Ecclesia Dei Commission) and could retain its characteristics without having to answer to the diocesan bishops.

Answer to the "Diocesan Bishops"???? Please.!!  Why would that matter, as the SSPX has their own Bishops!!!!

Sounds just like another Modernist trap to me!

I am confused over your concern. It says The SSPX  "could retain its characteristics without having to answer to the diocesan bishops."

[crusaderfortruth3372]

My point is there was no reason for putting in the words "diocesan bishops" when the SSPX already has 4 Bishops of their own so why include it??!!?..... Unless they aren't recognizing the SSPX Bishops as Bishops, which would be very problematic.

[Prie dieu]

Thank you.  I've been looking for a cool Smurf avatar!  And it's green!

You know what would also be nice?  If Rome wasn't choking to death on Modernism.

When, oh when will Rome de-protestantize the Mass, reclaim her exclusive identity as the Church of Christ and tell all men, whether Jew or Greek (schismatic), that outside the Church there is no salvation?!

Likely after the conversion of Russia, great chastisement etc., etc.

[FHM310]

It's all just talk right now.

When will the Pope acknowledge the modernist errors of Vatican II? Will I live to see the day? That's what I'm really interested in.

Vetus, bc I respect your opinion and want your outlook, do you think the SSPX operates better now and can achieve more in the current state/arrangement things are in?  Or could they better serve under how the rumors say could be offered to them.

I don't know either way.  I admit my bias towards having them accept, and then them denouncing fully the evils of bishops and clergymen in the Vatican and being able to not have schismatic, etc thrown at them.

I however am not terribly intimate with them, but do support them and their position.

Thoughts?    Do you trust bp. Fellay to make the right choice? 

I know you didn't ask me, and I too respect Vetus' opinion and like to hear his outlook.  But FWIW I think I might answer your good questions with my two cents. 

do you think the SSPX operates better now and can achieve more in the current state/arrangement things are in?  Or could they better serve under how the rumors say could be offered to them.

Personally, I think they operated better in the 1990s and perhaps early 2000s than they have for the past few years, and operate better now than they would "under how the rumors say could be offered to them."  I say this because, for the past few years, +BF says less and less critical of the Pope & things he says & does that are most certainly deserving of criticism, the types of things which Archbishop Lefebvre did criticize while the SSPX was in Doctrinal Discussions with Rome in his day.  +AL did not "muzzle" the SSPX the way that +BF has admitted he's been doing since the recent Doctrinal Discussions got underway.  Since one of the main jobs of the SSPX is to counter the errors of modern day churchmen, that should and used to include the Pope.  If they accept a deal such as "the rumors say could be offered to them," they will be even less likely to say a word about anything this or any future Pope does or says wrong, especially considering that +BF's already toned it down.

I admit my bias towards having them accept, and then them denouncing fully the evils of bishops and clergymen in the Vatican and being able to not have schismatic, etc thrown at them.

As long as they continue (or get back to) denouncing fully the evils of ALL bishops and clergymen in the Vatican."  And I mean ALL!

Thoughts?    Do you trust bp. Fellay to make the right choice? 

This one is harder. I'd like to think he would.  In the old days I would have said, "absolutely."  But the way he's been muzzling the SSPX in recent years, hearing him say things I never thought I'd hear in a million years, like calling people who are not our elder brothers our  "Elder Brothers", saying he has "a very very  mixed feeling" on the beatification of John Paul II - things that I think must be making Archbishop Lefebvre turn over in his grave - they give me less confidence in him.  Nevertheless, I am still praying & hoping he will make the right choice.    :pray:

[Someone1776]

My point is there was no reason for putting in the words "diocesan bishops" when the SSPX already has 4 Bishops of their own so why include it??!!?..... Unless they aren't recognizing the SSPX Bishops as Bishops, which would be very problematic.

It's an important fact that the new structure indicates diocesan bishops won't be able to meddle with the SSPX. I guarantee you Bishop Fellay cares very much on this point.  Actually, if such a structure is created I would bet the FSSP and ICK would join up in a heartbeat to get around diocesan bishops. 

The SSPX does have its own bishops, but so do religious orders like the Franciscan, yet the Franciscans still have to obey diocesan bishops when serving diocesan churches.  The Ordinariate is basically creating a new rite which exempts the SSPX from the usual obedience due to Latin-Rite bishops. 

[Prie dieu]

Which is actually why I dislike the SSPX getting an Ordinariate Someone.  Sure, the diocesan bishops wont be allowed to "interfere" with the SSPX, but the SSPX will have free reign to interfere in the bishop's diocese.

[crusaderfortruth3372]

Ok, but how much do you want to make a bet that the diocesan bishops will meddle in the affairs of the SSPX?? How do you know they won't try to boss them around and go against whatever they have in place????

[Someone1776]

Which is actually why I dislike the SSPX getting an Ordinariate Someone.  Sure, the diocesan bishops wont be allowed to "interfere" with the SSPX, but the SSPX will have free reign to interfere in the bishop's diocese.

Sounds like good stuff!  

Although really this is no different than than a Latin bishop basically no say over what an Eastern Rite church does in his own diocese.  

[Prie dieu]

Although really this is no different than than a Latin bishop basically no say over what an Eastern Rite church does in his own diocese.  

I don't think it's really comparable.