Vatican Offers SSPX Ordinariate
#41
(08-24-2011, 11:27 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Ok, but how much do you want to make a bet that the diocesan bishops will meddle in the affairs of the SSPX?? How do you know they won't try to boss them around and go against whatever they have in placeHuh??

If the bishops aren't part of the chain of command in which the SSPX operates they would be limited in what they could do.  It would be kind as if if a diocesan bishop show up at an Eastern Rite church and demanded that they start saying the Novus Ordo. No would pay attention or care.  Or if he tried to place a NO priest in charge of an Eastern Rite church.  Again, no would pay attention. I am sure bishops will try to mess around with the SSPX, but what they can do will be limited.  And, I am sure the Vatican would be very keen on not having bishops mess up a deal that has been what...40 years in the works? This might actually get the Vatican to have some gumption and slap down any bishop that tried to do crap.  
Reply
#42
(08-24-2011, 11:32 AM)City Smurf Wrote:
(08-24-2011, 11:28 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Although really this is no different than than a Latin bishop basically no say over what an Eastern Rite church does in his own diocese.  

I don't think it's really comparable.

I think it is. But, we can just compare it to the Anglican Ordinariate then since that appears to be the model. 
Reply
#43
(08-24-2011, 12:49 AM)joe17 Wrote: If Benedict XVI offers an ordinariate or something similiar, then the Society, to be consistent, should accept it.  To be separate from those that they say Chirst has put in charge of the Church is absurd.  They have made, de facto, the Superior General their pope.  They don't get to pope sift.  Either Benedict is the pope or he is not.  If he is, submit.  Don't let group think or loyalty to the old man take away your objective reasoning.  

 Joe

This
Reply
#44
(08-24-2011, 12:01 AM)Ray M Facere Wrote: I wouldn't get your hopes up. The article clearly states that the ordinate would be proposed only after resolution of the doctrinal questions, which is the same line the Society has held to. It will be a true miracle if a doctrinal clarification that satisfies the Society comes from Rome. The other option is unilateral regularization, but with that Rome would have to eat some crow. They would have to announce after the doctrinal talks they found the Society's positions to be acceptible within a range of possible interepretations of Vatican II, a more or less direct refutation of John Paul II's determination in Ecclesia Dei. Pray God willing it happens, unilaterally would probably be the only way at this point.

Maybe since this is such an exceptional situation, Pope Benedict will actually make an ex cathedra declaration mandating the most traditional interpretation of VII possible, and correcting what can't be given an interpretation in light of tradition.  Not likely, but it would be exiting to see!
Reply
#45
(08-24-2011, 10:27 AM)City Smurf Wrote: You know what would be nice?  Papal order to turn the SSPX into a religious society of cloistered monks.  He could find them a nice little monastery in Italy or maybe Spain.  Perhaps they'd learn the virtues of humility and obedience in the process.

Alas, the Pope wants unity with the SSPX.  Likewise I do as well (with them as individuals, not as the Society).  I think the Holy Father is misguided in approaching the SSPX with a soft-touch.  But who am I?  I'll pray for the Holy Father's intentions and hope him well in his endeavors, even those I disagree with.

Huh?

The SSPX does seem to be doing their best, with all integrity and no small amount of humility.

You can't really blame them for hopping into a lifeboat when the Ark of Salvation seemed to be sinking.  Now that the Church has begun to right herself, they want back on.  Makes sense.  They just want reassurance from the captain that he won't go careening around icebergs anymore. 
Reply
#46
(08-24-2011, 10:47 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: So basically the lesson here is that no matter what Pope Benedict does people will complain. 

LOL
Reply
#47
(08-24-2011, 11:21 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: It's an important fact that the new structure indicates diocesan bishops won't be able to meddle with the SSPX. I guarantee you Bishop Fellay cares very much on this point.  Actually, if such a structure is created I would bet the FSSP and ICK would join up in a heartbeat to get around diocesan bishops. 

The SSPX does have its own bishops, but so do religious orders like the Franciscan, yet the Franciscans still have to obey diocesan bishops when serving diocesan churches.  The Ordinariate is basically creating a new rite which exempts the SSPX from the usual obedience due to Latin-Rite bishops. 
The question is, IF a traditional ordinariate is made and IF the FSSP and ICKSP decide to join as well, what happens with the various apostolates like at St Lawrence chapel in Harrisburg or other places that have missions serving at diocesan owned buildings? What happens if the bishop is modernist and decides to take the sword to the other groups for joining up? Won't the bishop be freely allowed to boot us from buildings we don't own and rent from other NO parishes?  Mater Dei doesn't own St Lawrence, we rent it from the Cathedral. They could have a  hissy and throw us out unless we actually own the property.
Reply
#48
(08-24-2011, 01:25 PM)TeaGuyTom Wrote:
(08-24-2011, 11:21 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: It's an important fact that the new structure indicates diocesan bishops won't be able to meddle with the SSPX. I guarantee you Bishop Fellay cares very much on this point.  Actually, if such a structure is created I would bet the FSSP and ICK would join up in a heartbeat to get around diocesan bishops. 

The SSPX does have its own bishops, but so do religious orders like the Franciscan, yet the Franciscans still have to obey diocesan bishops when serving diocesan churches.  The Ordinariate is basically creating a new rite which exempts the SSPX from the usual obedience due to Latin-Rite bishops. 
The question is, IF a traditional ordinariate is made and IF the FSSP and ICKSP decide to join as well, what happens with the various apostolates like at St Lawrence chapel in Harrisburg or other places that have missions serving at diocesan owned buildings? What happens if the bishop is modernist and decides to take the sword to the other groups for joining up? Won't the bishop be freely allowed to boot us from buildings we don't own and rent from other NO parishes?  Mater Dei doesn't own St Lawrence, we rent it from the Cathedral. They could have a  hissy and throw us out unless we actually own the property.

It's my understanding that with the creation of the Anglican Ordinariate, Anglican Use Parishes that already existed in dioceses that wanted to join the Ordinariate actually had to formally secede from the diocese. I am sure in those cases there was a lot of negotiations behind closed doors regarding who owned the buildings, but it looks like none of the Anglican Use parishes that wanted to join the Ordinariate did not have too much trouble.  I am sure if a deal is reached there will be a lot of pressure on bishops from the Vatican to not muck this up. 
Reply
#49
(08-24-2011, 01:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:  I am sure if a deal is reached there will be a lot of pressure on bishops from the Vatican to not muck this up. 


I hope your right, but I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you!!!!
Reply
#50
(08-24-2011, 01:35 PM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote:
(08-24-2011, 01:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:  I am sure if a deal is reached there will be a lot of pressure on bishops from the Vatican to not muck this up. 


I hope your right, but I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you!!!!

I am sure bishops would be passive-aggressive toward the SSPX, but I think the SSPX could handle that.  I am sure Bishop Fellay won't cry himself to sleep if he periodically gets snubbed by other bishops.  But, if a bishop tried to use his powers overtly against a group which he has no power, I am pretty sure the Vatican would squash him pretty quickly, given how long these negotiations have been going on. The key thing is without diocesan bishops being in the chain of command that really limits the impact of their bite. 
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)