Vatican Offers SSPX Ordinariate
#51
(08-24-2011, 12:37 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: Maybe since this is such an exceptional situation, Pope Benedict will actually make an ex cathedra declaration mandating the most traditional interpretation of VII possible, and correcting what can't be given an interpretation in light of tradition.  Not likely, but it would be exiting to see!

An ex cathedra definition or document of definitions (anathemas, condemned propositions) has to be specific in what is taught or condemned.  Declaring that Vatican II must be strictly interpreted in light of Tradition doesn't mean much if it doesn't specify exactly how Vatican II conforms with Tradition.  What is needed is a new syllabus which succinctly teaches Catholic doctrine and which uses long-standing theological terms employed by the Church, as such terms have very specific meanings and allow little to no room for misinterpretation (not coincidentally, Vatican II avoided such terminology, which is a prime reason why we're even in this mess in the first place).
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#52
From the comment page on the Huffington Post's story on this:

Quote:“Bishops Fellay and Williamson of the SSPX are fronts for a growing neo Nazism in Europe dedicated to the destructio­n of the Second Vatican Council and its effort to take the Catholic Church into the 21st century. Such a structure, if establishe­d, will be itself an heretical act.

Benedict will have shown his true colors if this "structure­" is approved. He would be trying to sprinkle perfume on the stench of not onl yheresy, but he would be legitimizi­ng schism. Why not do the same for other independen­t Catholic bodies such as Old Roman Catholics, Utrecht Old Catholics, Polish National Catholics and countless other splinter groups?

Lutherans, Anglicans, and mainline Protestant­s should be approached as well). What's worse, he is supporting anti-Semit­ism of the most virulent form in Europe and America today. These bishops and the SSPX / Sedevacant­ists , as Benedict is doing himself, are embracing a movement to return Catholicis­m to the 16th century. To being an even stronger bulwark of anti-ratio­nalist and illiberal thought. A total rejection of the Enlightenm­ent and everything it represents­.

The universal college of bishops need to force Benedict into resignatio­n, or take their dioceses out of communion with Rome asap.

Either Benedict must resign the papacy, or a Great Council must be called to depose him for leading the Church into error if this structure goes into effect.” 

Quote:Amazing that the Vatican will welcome these traditiona­lists with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Not only do they want them back, the Vatican will back peddle the teachings of Vatican II in order to get them back. Yet the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunic­ating Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. Roy didn't start a new church; he didn't ordain bishopos without Vatican approval; he simply questioned why discrimina­tion exists in the church. You have to be a right wing trandition­alist to get respect from Rome. It is very sad.

Quote:All of which illustrate­s how non-cathol­ic, meaning how not universal, the RCC is.


Quote: J K Rowling could not write a more fantastic plot, complete with wizened old characters and fanciful costumes and ornate old stone buildings and obscure terminolog­y.........­..........­..is the Pope Dumbledore­, or Voldemort?­?
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#53
Biggest load of horse manure I've read in a long while.
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#54
Links to the Huffington POS storyHuh??
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#55
(08-24-2011, 02:35 PM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Links to the Huffington POS storyHuh??

The HuffPo story doesn't really say anything new:

Quote:The Vatican has summoned the head of a traditionalist group to Rome to assess the results of a two-year doctrinal dialogue between the schismatic group and the Holy See.

Monsignor Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), will meet on Sept. 14 with top officials who are trying to normalize relations, including American Cardinal William Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In June, Fellay said the church is "full of heresies," and the group ordained its own set of bishops in the United States, Switzerland and Germany without Vatican approval.

Talks between the two sides began in 2009 after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the 1988 excommunications of four SSPX bishops, including Bishop Richard Williamson, who has denied that the Holocaust killed 6 million Jews.

The talks focused on the modernizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), which SSPX opposes. Pope Benedict XVI maintains that Vatican II must be interpreted in "continuity" with church tradition.

According to Vatican Insider, a religion website of the Italian newspaper La Stampa, the Vatican intends to offer SSPX an special structure similar to the "ordinariate" created for Anglicans who want to join the Catholic Church. The deal would require SSPX to give "full recognition" to Vatican II reforms.

Like the structure created for the Anglicans, a special SSPX ordinariate would allow the group to keep some of its own traditions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23...34460.html

Note: Bishop Fellay was actually quoting the Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Levada, when he said the church is "full of heresies."
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#56
(08-24-2011, 02:55 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(08-24-2011, 02:35 PM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Links to the Huffington POS storyHuh??

The HuffPo story doesn't really say anything new:

Quote:The Vatican has summoned the head of a traditionalist group to Rome to assess the results of a two-year doctrinal dialogue between the schismatic group and the Holy See.

Monsignor Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), will meet on Sept. 14 with top officials who are trying to normalize relations, including American Cardinal William Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In June, Fellay said the church is "full of heresies," and the group ordained its own set of bishops in the United States, Switzerland and Germany without Vatican approval.

Talks between the two sides began in 2009 after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the 1988 excommunications of four SSPX bishops, including Bishop Richard Williamson, who has denied that the Holocaust killed 6 million Jews.

The talks focused on the modernizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), which SSPX opposes. Pope Benedict XVI maintains that Vatican II must be interpreted in "continuity" with church tradition.

According to Vatican Insider, a religion website of the Italian newspaper La Stampa, the Vatican intends to offer SSPX an special structure similar to the "ordinariate" created for Anglicans who want to join the Catholic Church. The deal would require SSPX to give "full recognition" to Vatican II reforms.

Like the structure created for the Anglicans, a special SSPX ordinariate would allow the group to keep some of its own traditions.




First of all, if this happens it wont be good!! Why??  Because the SSPX has been consistent by not  recognizing the Vatican II reforms.

They will only be allowed to keep "some" of its own traditions"Huh?  What kind of load of garbage is thatHuh???
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#57
(08-24-2011, 03:03 PM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: First of all, if this happens it wont be good!! Why??  Because the SSPX has been consistent by not  recognizing the Vatican II reforms.

They will only be allowed to keep "some" of its own traditions"Huh?  What kind of load of garbage is thatHuh???

I doubt Bishop Fellay is about to throw the SSPX under a bus.  How the doctrinal issues will be resolved we can't say, but it's possible that they will be resolved in such a way that makes the church stronger. 
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#58


Quote:Amazing that the Vatican will welcome these traditiona­lists with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Not only do they want them back, the Vatican will back peddle the teachings of Vatican II in order to get them back. Yet the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunic­ating Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. Roy didn't start a new church; he didn't ordain bishopos without Vatican approval; he simply questioned why discrimina­tion exists in the church. You have to be a right wing trandition­alist to get respect from Rome. It is very sad.
Ah yes, this is the off the rocker protestant understanding of the Vatican. HuffPo actually thinks Rome are right wing traditionalists ROFL Please, I laugh until I pee, and then laugh at that. Bertone is a right wing trad? Harvey is a trad? These are the BJP2 hanger ons still hanging out in Vatican city. Plus, whether HuffPo liked it or not, it was always questionable if they should have been excommunicated, even by Cardinal Ratzinger. In the case of the SSPX, they actually espouse Catholicism unlike the heresy of Bourgeois. Yes, lets declare Vatican II the new Catholicism and Roy Bourgeois the role model of this new church. Barf
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#59
Wasn't Pope John Paul II going to the ordinations, but then the modernists prevented him, and caused the 'excommunications" ?

tim
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#60
(08-24-2011, 03:21 PM)timoose Wrote: Wasn't Pope John Paul II going to the ordinations, but then the modernists prevented him, and caused the 'excommunications" ?

tim

I have never quite understood what happened in 1988. I gather at one point a deal had been reached, and then everything fell apart. Can anyway give a gist of what happened without polemics?
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