"Evangelical Catholicism" and the current EWTN lineup
#31
(09-01-2011, 12:28 AM)Laetare Wrote: I agree that there is an emphasis on a sort of low-Church Catholic evangelical outlook on EWTN. Some of the writers of books who also work on that network have downright happy-clappy adverts. Something about them seems like it isn't full, as it were. I say there's nothing wrong or heretical, but just... the whole glass isn't up to the brim, somehow.

???

Just hope the atheists who become Catholic start to take over the show. Every atheist I've met who converted to Catholicism did so entirely because of St. Thomas (me included  ;D)

I was actually more of Saint Augustine guy.  It all really started with Plato, Aristotle, and mostly Socrates though.  Atheists converts do often seem to have a very matter of fact way of dealing with the truths of the faith.  It's not about emotion with them very often.
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#32
(09-01-2011, 02:11 PM)MaterLaeta Wrote: I really liked Scott Hahn when I first converted to Catholicism.  His book "Rome Sweet Home" was the beginning of my conversion process.

Not quite sure how I missed these 2 controversies, but oh well.

I do find that as I began my journey to the TLM, I listened to him less and less.  He's not even on my radar any more.

But I still think he has a way of getting protestants to at least explore the Catholic faith.

True.

His main fault it that he's trying to be innovative but orthodox.  That always leads to a few good points but also some real head scratchers.  Scott Hahn does, however, give every impression of being completely obedient to the teachings of the Church as he sees them.

My main issue with him is that he writes at about a 4th grade level.  I don't mean to be elitist or anything, it's just startling when you put down The City of God and then pick up The Lamb's Supper.  It's like the first step off an airport escalator.    To be honest though, that is very likely the only way that most American Catholics can take their theology these days.  (By the way, I actually kind of liked that book.)
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#33
(09-01-2011, 04:58 PM)Roger the Shrubber Wrote:
(09-01-2011, 02:11 PM)MaterLaeta Wrote: I really liked Scott Hahn when I first converted to Catholicism.  His book "Rome Sweet Home" was the beginning of my conversion process.

Not quite sure how I missed these 2 controversies, but oh well.

I do find that as I began my journey to the TLM, I listened to him less and less.  He's not even on my radar any more.

But I still think he has a way of getting protestants to at least explore the Catholic faith.

True.

His main fault it that he's trying to be innovative but orthodox.  That always leads to a few good points but also some real head scratchers.  Scott Hahn does, however, give every impression of being completely obedient to the teachings of the Church as he sees them.

My main issue with him is that he writes at about a 4th grade level.  I don't mean to be elitist or anything, it's just startling when you put down The City of God and then pick up The Lamb's Supper.  It's like the first step off an airport escalator.    To be honest though, that is very likely the only way that most American Catholics can take their theology these days.  (By the way, I actually kind of liked that book.)

The 4th grade level of writing doesn't surprise me.  It's not just Hahn there, but most books in general.  I wish I could remember where I read/heard it, but supposedly the average American reads at a 4th grade level and most books are written/marketed to that.

I didn't even realize how much I have been affected by that and I am an avid reader -and not just junk novels.  As I have gotten deeper into good Catholic books, I have had to read vocabulary and writing styles that I had long ago forgotten and it takes practice.  And even after reading good Catholic books for a decade, I can tell that I still need to bring my reading level up as I am currently reading Warren Carroll's History of Christendom series and it takes me better than an hour to finish a short chapter with foot notes because of the complexity of his arguments and writing style.

Hahn does try to be orthodox.  He probably just needs some more development from a good priest.  I mean, he has openly supported Mandatum for theology professors recommend by Ex Cordae Ecclesiae.

I do agree with you though, that most Catholics aren't prepared for deep theology.  Most have never even heard some of the simple concepts discussed in Hahn's books.  People were amazed at what I could talk about after reading them.  Usually any Catholic at least reading Hahn is trying to educate themselves about their faith and will probably eventually graduate to the next level.
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#34
UGH!  EWTN TV & radio are bizzarre and sad!  I watch it on occasion as I'm on the road.  Are they trying to compete with TBN?  By the production quality and tone of most of the programming I'd guess so.  I did enjoy the Tom Woods series (I watched it on Youtube) and find Mother Angelica entertaining on occasion.  Other than that it's nauseating. 

Worse yet is the Catholic TV channel on Long Island!  Yikes!!  Weird, tacky "teen shows" and other low grade programming are the standard.  One time they had an very obese priest making a spaghetti dinner for some of his fellow priests in what appeared to be a TV stage type kitchen.  He cooked whilst they all blathered on about this and that, it was quite strange and pointless.  There's also a show featuring a priest and his sister that's very weird with extremely low production quality.

A couple of weeks ago I was tuned into Boston's Catholic radio station and heard the most bizarre, guitar strumming, kumbaya singing, rendition of the Rosary you could possibly imagine!  It made me want to cry it was so horrible (and I'm not one to shed tears)!

I'm thankful for my MP3 player and the auxiliary port in most rental cars :laughing:
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#35
I have always wondered if the revolution in the Church hadn't happened in the 60's, would these ex- protestants converted?
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#36
(09-01-2011, 08:11 PM)JMartyr Wrote: I have always wondered if the revolution in the Church hadn't happened in the 60's, would these ex- protestants converted?
This is a good question. You have to remember, many of these folks converted to the Church during the 1980's and 1990's. This was during the "glory years" of WYD, Charismatic Renewal, overtly emotional responses to the Church. Obviously the core doctrines are still there, but the traditional piety disappeared and the Pian-Gregorian missal abandoned for the NO. Swimming the Tiber isn't as scary to Evangelicals if some of that Mississippi mud mingles with it.   
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#37
Stated perfectly TeaGuyTom.
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#38
Quote:Yeah, Vinceteus, sorry to say this, but I'm not convinced. If somebody likes to "praise the Lord and pass the pepper" Arab-style, what business of it is yours? Do you need to micromanage peoples' prayer lives? The exclamation style of praise doesn't appeal to you... fine... but there's lots of precedent for it in the psalms... pick your battles, friend.

None of my business.  It's the theme and topic of this thread about Evangelicals who convert to the Catholic faith but string along their old heavy baggage of their old religion.  I was just saying such praises as "God is great" or "God is our mighty fortress" is not your typical Catholic exuberant expresssion or exclamation.  It's fine with you because you are accustomed to it.   

Further, what astonishes me is the defense of some of the Koran and the language used, especially against those they consider "infidels." 
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#39
(09-01-2011, 01:14 PM)CrusaderKing Wrote:
(09-01-2011, 10:33 AM)elizabee Wrote:
(09-01-2011, 01:16 AM)SaintRafael Wrote: Apparently, some of you guys weren't around the last couple of years and aren't aware about all the Scott Hahn controversy that occurred about 5-6 years ago.

You guys missed some real doozies. Among them the Scott Hahn Rosary with new Evangelical mysteries designed by Scott Hahn. Then there was the time Scott Hahn found out that the Holy Spirit was female. The Holy Spirit being feminine fits in with the whole Theology of the Body don't you see. The New Oxford Review took him to the woodshed over that issue.

LOL!! For real?? Links please!!

As a former evangelical, I have to stay that I feel I owe a great deal to the Hahns; Rome Sweet Home stopped me dead in my tracks, and catholic.com was my online "parish" before I upgraded to fisheaters. I think it has its place.
But yeah most people watching EWTN aren't Prot converts; they should vary their lineup a little more.

I think he's referring to this:

http://www.newoxfordreview.org/note.jsp?...notes-hahn

http://pblosser.blogspot.com/2007/06/for-record.html


Haha. Wow.

To be fair, Scott Hahn isn't the first of the laity to write his own Mysteries. Sheila Kipley (of our beloved NFP organization CCL), in her otherwise excellent book, Breastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood, includes an appendix of her suggested Rosary meditations on moments (purely imagined) in Christ's childhood, I think including first steps, weaning, things like that. I might be wrong in the specifics - I skimmed it years ago - but yeah, you get the idea. I'm guessing at least Hahn's came from Scripture...
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#40
(08-31-2011, 11:48 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(08-31-2011, 11:22 PM)AuberonDraenenWen Wrote:
(08-31-2011, 11:20 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I haven't read/seen too much of Scott Hahn, but I must admit I love his "third cup" theory. 

What is the third cup theory?

My bad. It's actually the fourth cup! James02 actually did a good job of summing it up:

(07-09-2011, 06:29 PM)James02 Wrote: This is actually something that Hahn might be on to.  Evidently during the Passover meal, you are supposed to drink 4 times.  Well, biblically Jesus evidently only drank 3 times.  Then on the cross He drank the fourth cup (the sour wine on the sponge) and proclaimed: It is finished.  Thus tying in His Passion and Death with Passover.

Might be true. 

In another thread James02 argued that someone has pushed the theory further and argued the fourth cup is actually that from which the priest drinks at Mass, thus every mass re-presents this.  But, I can't find that thread.

I read his theory on that, as well, and I thought it made sense, that is until I heard Klaus Gamber's theory about the last supper being a celebration of the beracha. He wrote a book on it, but it's only in German. It makes sense, because its meaning is essentially the same as "eucharist," and there are elements of the beracha prayers that are similar in form to certain prayers of the eucharistic sacrifice. I'd have to check my notes from that liturgy class to give more info, but I remember it making much more sense than Hahn's.

Here's the wikipedia article on the Jewish beracha prayer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berakhah
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