What would you sneak into the NO Mass as a pastor?
#11
I'd add back every bit of the propers and he ordinary in Latin that is allowed. I'd chant the Gloria in eccelsis Deo, and the Credo. I'd trade any whiz bang singer that didn't want to chant to the Presbyterians for a vacuum cleaner. Rhythm instruments owned by the Parish would be raffled off.  All of the communion gang would be required to  wear sack cloth and ashes on the steps of the Church during Sunday Mass for one year to atone for their complicitness, come rain, shine, or snow. Communion of the Faithful would be omitted until I was certain they had come to me for confession. I'd preach Paul's list of those that will never see heaven and end it with Humanae Vitae. Oh and no ones child would ever participate in Habitat for Humanity, they'd help other parishoners, especially the widows  fix their homes for free.

tim
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#12
(09-01-2011, 03:53 PM)Laetare Wrote: Dominus est, I love you! That's a perfect idea, and no one can object that your suggestion isn't "part of the Mass", because technically it is in the 1970. The rubrics, though, do not include the Sign before or after the homily, so doing what is done in the EF would probably not be legitimate. Could a priest make the Sign before and after his homily even though the rubrics don't call for it? They aren't too specific either:

After the Gospel, 17. "Then follows the Homily, which is to be preached by a Priest or Deacon on all Sundays and Holydays of Obligation; on other days, it is recommended." There's nothing saying we can't go all "Father/Son/Holy Spirit: Amen."! You could even finish each homily with a good blessing like in the EF, rather than just trailing off into the Credo like the OF generally does. Imagine that 45 minute sermon on Hell ending with "May God bless you and keep you all from the eternal flames, in the Name of..."

Some NO priests make the sign of the cross before/after the homily, and some TLM priests don't. It's a good idea, for sure.

Quote:Sigfrid, I was thinking about that too. It's always been on my mind... even rehearsing a quiet Introibo and Psalm 42 by myself before an imaginary altar makes me wish to be a priest more and more, rather than just stumping up to the table and starting the Mass with the Sign.

I suppose this is possible. The transitional Missal (the editions in between 1962 and 1970) relocated Psalm 42 and such to the sacristy. Before the Missal of Pius V in 1570, it was customary in many places still to recite these in the sacristy rather than at the altar. I believe the original intent of the Council reformers was to make the Mass start properly at the Introitus (as the name implies) rather than the 1962's current arrangement of the Introitus being prayed several minutes into the Mass. I'm not arguing for or against, just saying that's probably how they saw things.

In any case, Psalm 42 can definitely be prayed in the sacristy before Mass, if not before the altar.

Quote:newyorkcatholic, hey, that'd be great. I totally forgot about Leo XIII's prayers. We might mention specific parishioners' intentions or pray the St. Michael prayer for those for whom the Mass has been offered. Since the NO Mass rubric No. 146 says "If any liturgical action follows immediately, the rites of dismissal are omitted", a priest could extend the Sign until after these prayers kneeling before the altar. Maybe even bring a prie-Dieu to the base of the sanctuary so the priest may descend, ask all to kneel, say the prayers, and then go back up to the altar so he may bless everyone as a server moves the prie-Dieu away.

The thing about the Leonine Prayers is that they were imposed for a specific purpose, which was for the freedom of the Papal States after they had been annexed by the revolutionary Italian government. After the concordat with Mussolini which established the Vatican City as an independent state, Pius XI assigned a new purpose for them, which was for the freedom of the Catholic faith to be professed in Russia.

There is an article by the Reverend Anthony Cikada, who's also a poster here, which argues that since Communism fell and the intent for the Leonine Prayers has been fulfilled, they are automatically suppressed. Here: http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=16&catname=1#_ednref36


Quote:H.K., you make quality posts.  ;D I hadn't even thought of putting the choir in proper vestments (which the Anglicans are good at). I've never seen a cassock and an alb on servers - wouldn't the alb cover the cassock, or make it ungainly? Perhaps I don't know the difference and we're thinking of different things entirely... isn't it called a surplice, the thing worn by altar servers/acolytes in every EF video and photo I've ever seen?

Yes, the surplice is what our schola choristers in the video are wearing. The 1962 Mass rubrics stipulate the surplice for servers, except in monastic houses where the alb for servers is retained as a privilege... implying that's an older usage.

The surplice is basically an abbreviated form of the alb, designed to take less effort to put on. That's why I prefer the alb, since it's a fuller form. You can see in this picture of a Sarum Mass (a reconstruction of the pre-Reformation usage in England) that the acolytes wear cassock, then alb (with apparels), cincture, and amice (also with apparels). Basically everything the major clerics are wearing, except for stole and tunic. Compared to that, the surplice looks like a casual Friday's alb.

[Image: Percy+Dearmer.jpg]

Indeed, the cassock and surplice aren't even considered vestments. The cassock alone is street dress. Together with the surplice, it's choir dress. But neither are vestments in the proper sense.

Quote: The long hair of the chorister wasn't my problem, so much, just that they always look unkempt, heh. Dress codes have become null in NO Masses, usually. Also: wow, finding a male cantor around here would be dreadfully difficult - they're all old women with intense vibrato.

You'll find that in many of my posts, I lambast the tyranny of the old church lady, both within and without trad communities. The regular choir at my local diocesan TLM is also full of old church ladies. It's a common sight. If I were pastor of a church, I'd require all latar servers to also be part of the choir, and sing in choir on any Sundays that they're not scheduled to serve at the altar. Singing in choir is really an extension of serving, but our current culture, even in many parts of trad-dom, considers singing to be a woman's office. That is obviously wrong.
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#13
While we're on the subject of fuller vs. lesser forms, I'd build full rood screens, like the one in the image above. Mere altar rails seem flimsy in comparison.

[Image: roodscreen.jpg]
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#14
I would give a sermon on confession and ask the congregation: "why is it that everyone goes to communion and no one goes to confessionHuh?...Have you all suddenly developed an amazing ability to avoid mortal sin for decades at a timeHuh?...That must be the case because everyone in the Novus ordo goes to communion and practically no one goes to confession
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#15
(09-01-2011, 04:36 PM)matthew_talbot Wrote: I would give a sermon on confession and ask the congregation: "why is it that everyone goes to communion and no one goes to confessionHuh?...Have you all suddenly developed an amazing ability to avoid mortal sin for decades at a timeHuh?...That must be the case because everyone in the Novus ordo goes to communion and practically no one goes to confession

Our parish priest (actually he's not the parish priest, he's the one who says the TLM at the parish) always has very critical sermons on the last four things, but he always says "we" and not "you."

I'm sure this is in priest 101.  A priest shouldn't be critical in an accusatory sense of the congregation, but in a collective sense.  Not only because he is a sinner but also because people aren't going to listen long if the priest fits the stereotype of "the guy who's never done anything wrong telling people what to do"

More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#16
(09-01-2011, 04:36 PM)matthew_talbot Wrote: I would give a sermon on confession and ask the congregation: "why is it that everyone goes to communion and no one goes to confessionHuh?...Have you all suddenly developed an amazing ability to avoid mortal sin for decades at a timeHuh?...That must be the case because everyone in the Novus ordo goes to communion and practically no one goes to confession

The answer would probably be "because you (or your predecessor) never taught we had to in the first place".

The laity have a lot of problems, but since it's largely the clergy's fault, you'd do better to take other Church leaders to task first.
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#17
(09-01-2011, 04:54 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I'm sure this is in priest 101.  A priest shouldn't be critical in an accusatory sense of the congregation, but in a collective sense.  Not only because he is a sinner but also because people aren't going to listen long if the priest fits the stereotype of "the guy who's never done anything wrong telling people what to do"

I find Fr. Ripperger, FSSP, tends to do this. He comes up with generic sinners in his mind and then accuses them, saying "You do X because you're LAZY", etc., and I find it very annoying, hehe. Your complaint is excellent.

Oh, I would most definitely include prayers for the Sovereign (being a Commonwealth subject) after NO Mass, and make absolutely sure the Tabernacle was at least behind the altar, if not atop it. My biggest love in the whole Church, also, is the Te Deum. It is one of the reasons I converted: I figured that only the glory of a true God could inspire such an amazing and holy piece of music dedicated to His honour. The fact that it is never used in the NO to celebrate the next Pope, or thanksgiving for a new President, etc., is very much a peeve. The Te Deum and its procession, and especially Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, should be at the heart of parish life.

As a pastor, I believe I'd definitely try to get a Catholic evensong/LOTH/Office going. Even if only one other person sang it/said it with me in the choir, I'd do it myself. We must be totally 100% Catholic.
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#18
(09-01-2011, 05:00 PM)Laetare Wrote:
(09-01-2011, 04:54 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: I'm sure this is in priest 101.  A priest shouldn't be critical in an accusatory sense of the congregation, but in a collective sense.  Not only because he is a sinner but also because people aren't going to listen long if the priest fits the stereotype of "the guy who's never done anything wrong telling people what to do"

I find Fr. Ripperger, FSSP, tends to do this. He comes up with generic sinners in his mind and then accuses them, saying "You do X because you're LAZY", etc., and I find it very annoying, hehe. Your complaint is excellent.

Oh, I would most definitely include prayers for the Sovereign (being a Commonwealth subject) after NO Mass, and make absolutely sure the Tabernacle was at least behind the altar, if not atop it. My biggest love in the whole Church, also, is the Te Deum. It is one of the reasons I converted: I figured that only the glory of a true God could inspire such an amazing and holy piece of music dedicated to His honour. The fact that it is never used in the NO to celebrate the next Pope, or thanksgiving for a new President, etc., is very much a peeve. The Te Deum and its procession, and especially Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, should be at the heart of parish life.

As a pastor, I believe I'd definitely try to get a Catholic evensong/LOTH/Office going. Even if only one other person sang it/said it with me in the choir, I'd do it myself. We must be totally 100% Catholic.

Yeah.  The priest, if for no other reason than just to not be turning people away for being unnecessarily abrasive should not talk in an accusatory manner from the pulpit addressing the congregation as "you."  I'm sure there are exceptions.

There is no reason that a priest can't say the exact same thing using "we."  He'll just have more listeners.  And he won't be watering anything down.  If anything, it's more the truth to say "we" than "you."
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#19
Oh, and as far as my answer to the op- I'd slip in the TLM.  Hopefully no one will notice.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#20
I'd sneak in the Latin Mass so the parishioners could be taught some true Catholicism for a change.
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