This is quite interesting concerning nazism and the church:

Amount of Catholics in German municipalities:
[Image: deutschlandkarte_1.jpg]

Percentage that voted for Hitler:
[Image: deutschlandkarte_2.jpg]

For the record I don't trust the official Holocaust narrative. See this article, for example.
If the catholics were the less prone to support the nazism and Hitler, so who supported them? The prots.
Albert Enstein declared to the "Times" magazine that the catholics and the catholic Church were alone to attempt preventing the persecutions of the Jews during the nazism rise.
(09-04-2011, 11:13 PM)Pius_XII Wrote: what does everyone think of this site here?  Seems like this guy is attempting to blame the Church for holocaust!  Anyway, how you refute some of these claims the site makes?

I emailed him, sorry got no official copy of the message I sent him, but here's what he said:


First of all, thank you for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to write to me, even though I believe you are wrong in the substance of what you said. First of all, your whole argument seems to be predicated on the fact that I am supposedly addressing a “flock”, as if I was a religious preacher addressing a religious congregation. In situations like that, the speaker and the audience have a special relationship in which the listener is not supposed to question what the speaker says. That is the farthest possible to my relationship to my readers. Like you, they can and should question and think about what I’m saying, and like you (and unlike a “flock”) you can go and verify my statements.

You claim the Vatican condemned the Holocaust on numerous occassions. I invite you to name any condemnation that was clear and significant. The encyclicals you refer to precede the Holocaust and make no specific reference to the persecution of the Jews, which at the time of the encyclicals was already open and in full swing. The only condemnation of Hitler’s actions was in his treatment of Catholic organizations and a single generic paragraph (within dozens of pages) stating that racism was bad.

Have you read my book? Stating that there’s no evidence that antisemitism stemmed from Christian scriptures certainly seems to show that. It seems pretty obvious you are not aware of the considerable literature showing this either. The reason why Vatican II had to condemn the idea that the Jews were collectively responsible for Jesus' death was because that idea was intrinsic and endemic in Christianity in the first place! I agree that believing that Jews were minions of the devil is ridiculous, but whether you like it or not this was a common belief in Christendom. Whether the teaching is official or not makes no difference and does not detract from the fact that priests and everyone else believed it, spread it, and perpetuated it.

That Pius XII may be the most quoted pope in Vatican II is immaterial. No one, including myself, have anything negative to say about his religious teachings or role as a religious leader. But it was Vatican II, not Pius XII, who felt compelled to “exonerate” the Jews of Jesus’ time, and of all time, from the alleged crime of deicide. And it was John XXIII, not Pius XII, who removed statements like “perfidious Jews” from the Good Friday prayer. And it all happened after six million Jews had been murdered by people who believed these things, who were the successors to people who had persecuted and murdered Jews in previous centuries and who also believed that.

Lastly, it wasn’t Vatican officials but rather the members of the German Christian churces who helped Nazi officials in their persection of Jews by providing them with baptismal records before and during WWII. Some Vatican officials helped Nazi and Croatian wanted war criminals evade Justice after the war.

How would you answer this?  Any ideas?

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