bishop williamson
#31
(09-10-2011, 08:09 PM)Anastasia Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 06:15 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 05:57 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: B. This woman said, "We don't have money to educate the kids." He responded, "Teach the girls to cook instead." What is this woman supposed to do now? Go home and not educate either her boys or her girls? Does this really seem like a good solution?

I think she was talking about higher education. Everyone gets basic education. That is not the question. Basic education is free up to high school for boys and girls. I think Bishop Williamson has no problem with basic education that is essential to everybody including girls.
Even the basic education done at home isn't free. You need texts, school supplies, and a certain amount of the classics. Worksheets and coloring pages can be had for free (assuming you have a printer), but for the most part, schoolbooks cost money. More than you might think, as the better they are, the more expensive they tend to be. Saxon Math for instance, favored by most Catholic homeschool programs: did you know that each year's homeschool curriculum is $100? Assuming you re-use the books for future children, that's still $1200 1-12 on math alone! I try and be as frugal as is possible with our homeschooling, but it doesn't come cheaply. I only wish it did!

I consider that cheap, compared to the tuition at Catholic school.  And, at Catholic school, you still have to buy the textbooks.
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#32
Isn't anyone disturbed by the fact that the Bishop is promoting manipulation in marriage?

Trick him into thinking he's calling the shots even when he's not?

Maybe that works for women who are married to overgrown infants.
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#33
(09-10-2011, 07:33 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 06:48 PM)wallflower Wrote: ]
Your objections contain a bunch of extra imagined details.
Like what?

You imagine he says girls should not be educated. We have no idea if they meant college, homeschool or what their situation is but because he brings up the all important role of wife and mother that must be impressed upon their daughters, you assume he means there should be NO other academic type as well. You'll find many traditional mothers who are highly educated (by your definition of educated) who still see their duties as wife and mother as most important. Him claiming that as most important in no way means -- girls should not be educated. That is your imagined extra.

He says Respect your husband, even if he may not always deserve it. You imagine that to read, -- Respect your husband even if he never deserves it. There is a big difference between being advised to respect a bad man and being advised to respect a good man who has faults. The wording is even if he "may not always deserve it", which implies he is an overall good man who does deserve it most of the time. Wives with overall good husbands get that, no brainwashing needed.

He says to be the heart and disguise making more money if you do. I assume he means don't rub it in rather than have fake checkbooks for hubby. I doubt he means live a lie. I think he's saying to be smart in the way that you deal with people, we constantly berate men to watch how they say things to us to preserve our feelings, I see no problem in reversing that request to preserve their egos. Either way, we both put our spin on it because he isn't quite clear on what exactly he means by "disguise it". I think my interpretation is more common sense but you're free to stick with yours.

Woman's adaptability is well-known. This is not a religious issue. Women move to their husband's homes, cities, countries, they take their names, they take over their households, they quit their jobs to stay home. They simply are more adaptable. It's in their nature. Catholic or not, traditional or not, Italian, Jewsih, Hindu, this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with observing human nature. You imagine this to mean that a man never has to change anything or give of himself. Her being more adapable does not mean he is not adapable, it means he is less adaptable. Truth, so be careful who you marry. Don't go into it thinking you'll change him. Isn't that the old joke? He marries thinking she'll never change, she marries thinking he will. Both will be disappointed. Anyway, we depend on our strengths to complete each other and get us through marriage. If adaptability is a strength, tap into it. Use it.

No where does he tell her to lie and pretend everything is okay. He straight up tells her to argue if she wants/needs to, but do it away from the kids and respectfully. How that translates to lie and pretend his failings are okay are your imagined extras.

ETA: I forgot to add that in the last part about not complaining about working all day, he also doesn't give specifics so we don't know what he would say of each individual scenario. Because he says that women should not ask for understanding, I am tending to disagree with him on that. We all MUST have understanding towards each other and whatever our situations or genders or duties. The wording gives me pause because it's almost like he thinks women who work all day should also have the bulk of the home work to do as well. That's what I get out of "not asking for understanding at home." If that's his meaning, I disagree. If husbands and wives both work outside the home, then they both need to split the work inside the home. It's not ideal but neither is pilling working outside the home plus all stay-at-home-mom duties on her shoulders until she mentally, physically, spiritually cracks and leaves you and your kids. If he means that she should not blame him or make him feel the failure because she has to work, then I would agree. That one is just a sentence or two and not elaborated upon, so it's left to all our imaginations how we want to add the extras.
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#34
(09-10-2011, 08:29 PM)banksy Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:13 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:02 PM)banksy Wrote:I think I would prefer to hear this kind of advice from Williamson's sister or mother or some wise old dame from his parish. 

These are the words of a broken man.  

Quote:  Unless you're drinking the kool-aid,  this kinda thing is not credible with intelligent people.  MIKEY

So I supposei it's a mark of intelligence to hear truth and reject it because it's not being stated by the "right kind of person"  in your estimation?  

That's the idea of someone who has already drunk deep of the Kool Aid.    

BROKE BUT NOT BROKEN....Its rather touching that this holy bloke seems to have an opinion on everything including how much Zyclon-B - OOPS SORRY - How much sugar to stir into the Kool-aid.  And I'm sure he has lots of doe-eyed, peasant skirted admirers sitting on the edge of their uncomfortable chairs waiting for the next nugget from Uncle Billiamson spoken in endearing accents that remind us how green our valleys REALLY are.  So, as a matter of fact, YES -  we need hard-ass women speaking hard-ass thruths to weak and confused women.  MIKEY

You asked for it. You are a rude, disrespectful jackass who doesn't have anything intelligent to add to this conversation therefore disguises his ineptitude with namecalling and insults to try and bluster his way through when he should just stay out of it. YOUR kind of ego is not the kind I would condescend to bolster, so add something of note or shove off.

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#35
(09-10-2011, 08:49 PM)wallflower Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:29 PM)banksy Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:13 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:02 PM)banksy Wrote:I think I would prefer to hear this kind of advice from Williamson's sister or mother or some wise old dame from his parish. 

These are the words of a broken man.  

Quote:  Unless you're drinking the kool-aid,  this kinda thing is not credible with intelligent people.  MIKEY

So I supposei it's a mark of intelligence to hear truth and reject it because it's not being stated by the "right kind of person"  in your estimation?  

That's the idea of someone who has already drunk deep of the Kool Aid.    

BROKE BUT NOT BROKEN....Its rather touching that this holy bloke seems to have an opinion on everything including how much Zyclon-B - OOPS SORRY - How much sugar to stir into the Kool-aid.  And I'm sure he has lots of doe-eyed, peasant skirted admirers sitting on the edge of their uncomfortable chairs waiting for the next nugget from Uncle Billiamson spoken in endearing accents that remind us how green our valleys REALLY are.  So, as a matter of fact, YES -  we need hard-ass women speaking hard-ass thruths to weak and confused women.  MIKEY

You asked for it. You are a rude, disrespectful jackass who doesn't have anything intelligent to add to this conversation therefore disguises his ineptitude with namecalling and insults to try and bluster his way through when he should just stay out of it. YOUR kind of ego is not the kind I would condescend to bolster, so add something of note or shove off.
I'm with you on there wallflower. Bansky is way out of line. He resorts to namecalling and insults a good man. (He's done it before)
Bansky, I really hope you leave this forum for good. 

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#36
(09-10-2011, 08:27 PM)ErinIsNice Wrote: Isn't anyone disturbed by the fact that the Bishop is promoting manipulation in marriage?

Trick him into thinking he's calling the shots even when he's not?

Maybe that works for women who are married to overgrown infants.

not really...although there are other problems with his blog post here...

"The man is the head of the house...but the woman, she is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she wants to."


nothing wrong with finesse, makes the world a smoother place.
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#37
(09-10-2011, 09:43 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 08:27 PM)ErinIsNice Wrote: Isn't anyone disturbed by the fact that the Bishop is promoting manipulation in marriage?

Trick him into thinking he's calling the shots even when he's not?

Maybe that works for women who are married to overgrown infants.

not really...although there are other problems with his blog post here...

"The man is the head of the house...but the woman, she is the neck, and she can turn the head any way she wants to."


nothing wrong with finesse, makes the world a smoother place.

Reminds me of something my first horse trainer used to tell me, when I was a little kid, "Make it sound like it's something he WANTS to do."
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#38
Good advice...all in the sale
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#39
(09-10-2011, 11:38 PM)Scipio_a Wrote: Good advice...all in the sale

So how closely does Underdog follow Bishop Williamson's advice, lol? 
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#40
(09-10-2011, 05:52 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 05:10 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(09-10-2011, 05:09 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: More one-sided bilge from B. It's "easier" for women to adapt....how convenient for men.  :laughing: And what is his real goal in wanting all women to be uneducated, anyway?

It seems to me you are married to the world and could care less what the traditional roles of the husband and wife are. AKA...you're a feminist.

What he's calling "traditional roles" are this: women should lie and pretend everything is okay instead of finding an actual solution.

I'm tired of the knee-jerk "you're a feminist" response. Someone else try to do better, please.

What actual solution did he give to this woman? Can anyone tell me what advice he gave her?

He also thinks a woman's most important place is in the kitchen.

Iolanthe, you aren't a feminist, just a fighter. If you, Louis_Martin, and I could get together and talk about an idea to which we all are strongly opposed, we would have one of the most enjoyable times of our lives! Can we set a date for talking about the NFP requirement? 

I think he told her to conform to her husband's wishes.

What I think he's saying:
If he's crabby, be nice and don't correct anything he does wrong. (Here I think you should still correct him, but gently, and perhaps after he has calmed down.)
Be a milquetoast.
Teach your girls that they should be in the kitchen.


This one really gets me "Be lovable." What? Does that mean to act all cute like a teddy bear? If your husband can't love you through bad times, why did he marry you? No one is always nice and sweet and good. Husbands as well as wives need to learn to deal with the other's stress or crabbiness.

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