Vatican: Vatican II not "essential" to the faith
#61
(09-16-2011, 03:27 PM)JayneK Wrote: I disagree with many things that Vetus says too, but it does no good to make it into something personal. Just try to focus on ideas.
Ideas [no matter how sound or unsound they are] do not mix well with insults.
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#62
Long live the Holy Roman Catholic Church - at least until the last judgment, when the sacraments shall be abolished, for we shall have their Generator before our eyes. May the Pope, cardinals, and bishops live and reign for a good solid time. :) I make no distinctions of a gay church, conciliar church, or Vatican II church. We see only the holy Catholic Church founded by our Lord at Pentecost, consoled by the heart of our Lady and upheld by the prayers of the saints.

She's full of sinners, but since when hasn't She been? The Arian Crisis saw more bishops literally declare formal heresy than any in the last 40 years, and the little mixup in the late 14th and early 15th centuries nearly ruined the Papacy. Have some fecking faith and hope, not to mention the most important virtue, the only one which God truly possesses or need possess: CARITAS.
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#63
(09-13-2011, 10:46 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: It wouldn't call the church back into tradition. It would just be saying that these trads aren't beyond the pale and their ideas are worth considering.  Saying Vatican II is not an essential thing is a big deal because many people run around acting as it's cornerstone of the faith.  For the Vatican to admit it's not essential cuts down those people right away.  In addition, I am not sure how you can argue Dignitatis Humanae is a comprehensible document if it's not essential.  That document says people have a fundamental right to religious liberty.  But now the Vatican would be saying people have a fundamental right to religious liberty (but this idea is not fundamental).  But, again such an admission means Vatican II is not sacrosanct and people in the church will take notice of this admission.

But, otherwise this wouldn't be a call back to tradition.  They're not saying the ideas of Vatican II are wrong, they're just not essential.  This would be more like removing the shackles of tradition and letting traditional Catholics make the case in the church why they're right.  They wouldn't have to worry about being accused of schismatics or even heretics anymore.  The SSPX's irregular status has always allowed people to quickly dismiss them.  If the Vatican says "we're cool with the people" a  lot of people not paying attention to them....might now consider their arguments.  But, tradition would still have a long hard fight to wage, but now it would be able to do so without being chained up.  

This isn't the end of the crisis. This isn't the beginning of the end of the crisis.  But, it might be the end of the beginning of the crisis.  

But, they're are still a lot of big ifs about what will happen tomorrow.  Let us all pray that these initial reports are true!

Yes, this would be huge news. It would be one of the main points Lefebvre was arguing all along--the fact that you couldn't call into question and discuss the council documents without getting beaten with sticks, as if they were some super-dogma that wiped away the preceding 20 centuries of teaching.
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