Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
joy at what? a clear attempt the NO to trap and ensare the society?
im no fallin for it!!!
you can laugh your ass right off the cliff singing  and dancin in the tulips if thats your thing
im not commin
(09-15-2011, 12:42 PM)dan hunter Wrote: The Magisterium of the Church is infallible

That's only partially true. There are Three levels of the Magisterium; The Extraordinary, as defined by Vatican Council I, and the Ordinary, which is divided into the Ordinary Infallible and Ordinary Authentic. Ordinary Infallible is understood as that which has been consistently taught through history. Ordinary Authentic may or may not be correct depending upon the facts, but it's authentic because it's the opinion of a Pope.
(09-15-2011, 02:34 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: joy at what? a clear attempt the NO to trap and ensare the society?
im no fallin for it!!!
you can laugh your ass right off the cliff singing  and dancin in the tulips if thats your thing
im not commin

DK, I was trying to think how to reply to that comment (the "joy" one), so I appreciate that you did it for me!    :)

(& FWIW I think VO has appropriate joy)  
sip sip
(09-15-2011, 02:11 PM)Vincentius Wrote:  Despite the way we envision how things are, the Church of Christ has NOT become invisible or has disappeared.  If Peter is not there, then where is Christ?  He lied to us.  This is not another venture into papalotry as some are wont to accuse.  I am not so fond of Peter now or those of recent memory, but the Holy Ghost is still in charge.  He knows what He is doing and we don't have to tell Him what we want Him to do.  That's the height of hypocrisy.

The way we envision how things are mean nothing. The fact that the Church is in a crisis is just the way it is no matter how we want to envision it.

The pope is in Rome, he is BXVI and outside of BXVI himself, no power on earth can change that. Christ did not lie to us. Nor did He promise us that we'd never have a bad pope or bad popes. I mean, wrong is wrong regardless of who is doing wrong - to them that know more, more is expected, no one ever expected the popes to turn modernist - but__ they__ did - along with the rest of the hierarchy.

That is real. Distasteful to say as all get out, but real non the less. The SSPX has been battling against the modernists for over 40 years now,  so what place do they hope to enjoy amongst the Judas'? Too many FEers seem to think that the SSPX should just sign "for fellowship" - as though under the circumstances, that were even a reason.

(09-15-2011, 02:11 PM)Vincentius Wrote: This is a good thing to happen to the SSPX. Didn't we all pray for it?  Hey, the door to the citadel is ajar.  Get your foot in and work things out from the inside.  You can't storm the Church from the outside.  History tells of those who have tried these 21 centuries of the Church's existence attest to that.  Those who tried never made it in, though it seems that it has happened these past 40 years, seeing what the conciliar hijackers have accomplished.  Pope Leo XIII's vision of Satan telling Christ he can destroy the Church and Christ saying to him, Go Ahead, has and is actually happening.  Are we just going to let them have their way?  The SSPX (and nobody else) can turn things around once reintegrated (or assimilated) and bring back Tradition and the authentic Magisterium.  In other words, once inside the citadel, they can start throwing the bums out the door.  The other traditional orders and societies are there to help clean out the mess.


Certainly we pray for it - but if there was any hope of kicking out the crooks from inside, FSSP would have already at least started that process +20 years ago - no? The reason they could not even begin to attempt to do that is because it does not work that way. The way it works is, once inside, you are with them - period.
No one can do anything from within because it is not a democracy. The hope for change absolutely must start from within - from the top, the pope. He is, after all, Peter and Christ's head on earth - it is he we depend on to clean up the mess.

He has not asked for help - from the news we get, he never even mentions that there are any problems, much less acknowledge there is a crisis - what do folks expect the SSPX to do when the only thing the pope does is offer a NO  olive branch? 
(09-15-2011, 02:32 PM)dan hunter Wrote:
(09-15-2011, 02:29 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-15-2011, 02:24 PM)dan hunter Wrote:
(09-15-2011, 02:12 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Perhaps the SSPX will be "regularised" just in time to attend Assisi III.

That'll be interesting.
Perhaps at Assisi III the Holy Father will call all to conversion.
We can only pray.

And after he doesn't?

Make up silly excuses and bury our heads in the sand again.

Wow! Your gross crankiness and lack of joy is appalling.

No we condemn this gathering as non Christian if in fact it is.

Are you half ostrich?

Are you saying there's no evidence that false ecumenism will (or might) take place?!  We have a Holy Father who talks about not praying for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense, who says that the reunion of Catholics and Orthodox does not necessarily include their acceptance of Vatican I, and who says that we should no longer talk about an "ecumenism of the return" with regard to Protestants (spoken of by Pope Pius XI and the Holy Office under Pius XII).  I don't doubt he'll mention the need of conversion for all, but I do doubt he'll mention the utter necessity and gravity of this conversion for those living outside the Catholic Church.
I said we can pray that the HF calls for the conversion of all men in false religions, I did not say he will.

We must be joyful in everything.
not in sacrilege
DK, awesome avatar.....dont change it!!!
Ha Schneider!
(09-15-2011, 03:46 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: not in sacrilege
Hear, Hear!

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