Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
#71
(09-16-2011, 11:28 AM)Josué Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 06:35 AM)Stubborn Wrote: People who wish to attend the traditional mass can go to FSSP.

We don't have one here in San Antonio.  The only TLM is A SSPX chapel and the Church of St. Pius X (I think it's a diocesan mass).
Well then, you already have an SSPX chapel near you - what is your point?
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#72
(09-16-2011, 11:39 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 11:28 AM)Josué Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 06:35 AM)Stubborn Wrote: People who wish to attend the traditional mass can go to FSSP.

We don't have one here in San Antonio.  The only TLM is A SSPX chapel and the Church of St. Pius X (I think it's a diocesan mass).
Well then, you already have an SSPX chapel near you - what is your point?


Hes is probably reluctant to receiving that sacraments there because they are "canonically irregular" and probably believes the sacraments, while valid to be illicit... That is Real Catholic TV's talking points anyway.... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this stance, I'm just trying to state Josue's beliefs.... Although i could be wrong!!
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#73
(09-16-2011, 11:51 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 11:39 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 11:28 AM)Josué Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 06:35 AM)Stubborn Wrote: People who wish to attend the traditional mass can go to FSSP.

We don't have one here in San Antonio.  The only TLM is A SSPX chapel and the Church of St. Pius X (I think it's a diocesan mass).
Well then, you already have an SSPX chapel near you - what is your point?


Hes is probably reluctant to receiving that sacraments there because they are "canonically irregular" and probably believes the sacraments, while valid to be illicit... That is Real Catholic TV's talking points anyway.... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this stance, I'm just trying to state Josue's beliefs.... Although i could be wrong!!

Ahh, I see. Well, if that's the case, I would never let anything stop me from participation in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass - particularly when ipso facto it means "irregularity." 
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#74
I don't think you understand what a big deal it is for many Catholics to attend a "valid but illicit mass." I once told someone I had attended such a mass and they angrily told me I had self-excommunicated myself. And this wasn't from some progressive Catholic, but someone who very much dislikes the NO and believes the church is in crisis.

I know many people like to think everyone at the NO is a bunch of heathens, but that's not true. There are so many that just don't know better. I once lived in a very liberal diocese where priests often said heretical things (like abortion isn't always a sin or even that serious of a sin). It was horrible. I shopped around for a nice parish but couldn't find anything. And there were many of us that realized what a horrible state the diocese was in. It was a very unhappy time for me spiritually and eventually killed my faith altogether.

Now you want to hear what's funny? There was a SSPX chapel 20 minutes from where I lived. I had no idea. The chapel had not been listed in the Catholic directories I had looked up. None of the other unhappy Catholics I knew knew about it. It was completely invisible to me. And even if I had heard about as soon as someone said "oh they are not sanctioned by Rome and they have a bishop that denies the holocaust" I would have stopped thinking about them.

But, I never got that far. Had no idea they existed. And I visited the town where they were located at least weekly during this period as my girlfriend at the time lived there.

The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.
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#75
(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.

I agree with this.  There are many people trying to be good Catholics who would benefit immensely from a regularized SSPX.  The Society has reached a point where it will be more effective in saving souls if they work from within the structures of the Church.
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#76
It will be interesting to see, once the FSSPX are canonically regularised, to see if the congregation swells at my diocesan SSPX chapel, or geographical territory chapel.
Alrady it is almost standing room only on Sundays.
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#77
(09-16-2011, 12:56 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.

I agree with this.  There are many people trying to be good Catholics who would benefit immensely from a regularized SSPX.  The Society has reached a point where it will be more effective in saving souls if they work from within the structures of the Church.

^ These are pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

As it is, the Novus Ordo religion is dying. Only trad families are able to demographically sustain themselves, and their numbers are stable (and growing). Novus Ordo populations are rapidly shrinking. On the other hand, converts and reverts to the Faith are more and more frequently (re)entering the Church via trad parishes, or later finding themselves drawn to traditional Catholicism. The regularisation of the SSPX will speed up a process which is already well underway in the Church: the return to Tradition.

When I had just returned to the faith, I was regularly attending a Novus Ordo parish. I knew that there was a SSPX parish just 200 metres from my house but because I thought they were schismatics/heretics I avoided them. Frankly, I thought they wouldn't welcome me inside their church because I was a normal diocesan Catholic. Their irregular status causes more harm than good, I think.
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#78
(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I don't think you understand what a big deal it is for many Catholics to attend a "valid but illicit mass." I once told someone I had attended such a mass and they angrily told me I had self-excommunicated myself. And this wasn't from some progressive Catholic, but someone who very much dislikes the NO and believes the church is in crisis.

The truth is the NO is neither valid or licit - heck, it's not even Catholic. It is a novelty. Once folks wrap their brains around that, things will become much clearer.

(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I know many people like to think everyone at the NO is a bunch of heathens, but that's not true. There are so many that just don't know better. I once lived in a very liberal diocese where priests often said heretical things (like abortion isn't always a sin or even that serious of a sin). It was horrible. I shopped around for a nice parish but couldn't find anything. And there were many of us that realized what a horrible state the diocese was in. It was a very unhappy time for me spiritually and eventually killed my faith altogether.

Sorry but it is everyone's duty while they live and breath to strive to "know better". Nobody faces Our Lord and gets away with "but I didn't know".

(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Now you want to hear what's funny? There was a SSPX chapel 20 minutes from where I lived. I had no idea. The chapel had not been listed in the Catholic directories I had looked up. None of the other unhappy Catholics I knew knew about it. It was completely invisible to me. And even if I had heard about as soon as someone said "oh they are not sanctioned by Rome and they have a bishop that denies the holocaust" I would have stopped thinking about them.

But, I never got that far. Had no idea they existed. And I visited the town where they were located at least weekly during this period as my girlfriend at the time lived there.

The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.

It would not have been invisible had you been seeking for it.
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#79
(09-16-2011, 01:19 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Now you want to hear what's funny? There was a SSPX chapel 20 minutes from where I lived. I had no idea. The chapel had not been listed in the Catholic directories I had looked up. None of the other unhappy Catholics I knew knew about it. It was completely invisible to me. And even if I had heard about as soon as someone said "oh they are not sanctioned by Rome and they have a bishop that denies the holocaust" I would have stopped thinking about them.

But, I never got that far. Had no idea they existed. And I visited the town where they were located at least weekly during this period as my girlfriend at the time lived there.

The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.

It would not have been invisible had you been seeking for it.
Why would anybody seek out a group that they had been taught was a bunch of schismatics that must be avoided? 
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#80
(09-16-2011, 01:19 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I don't think you understand what a big deal it is for many Catholics to attend a "valid but illicit mass." I once told someone I had attended such a mass and they angrily told me I had self-excommunicated myself. And this wasn't from some progressive Catholic, but someone who very much dislikes the NO and believes the church is in crisis.

The truth is the NO is neither valid or licit - heck, it's not even Catholic. It is a novelty. Once folks wrap their brains around that, things will become much clearer.

(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I know many people like to think everyone at the NO is a bunch of heathens, but that's not true. There are so many that just don't know better. I once lived in a very liberal diocese where priests often said heretical things (like abortion isn't always a sin or even that serious of a sin). It was horrible. I shopped around for a nice parish but couldn't find anything. And there were many of us that realized what a horrible state the diocese was in. It was a very unhappy time for me spiritually and eventually killed my faith altogether.

Sorry but it is everyone's duty while they live and breath to strive to "know better". Nobody faces Our Lord and gets away with "but I didn't know".

(09-16-2011, 12:29 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Now you want to hear what's funny? There was a SSPX chapel 20 minutes from where I lived. I had no idea. The chapel had not been listed in the Catholic directories I had looked up. None of the other unhappy Catholics I knew knew about it. It was completely invisible to me. And even if I had heard about as soon as someone said "oh they are not sanctioned by Rome and they have a bishop that denies the holocaust" I would have stopped thinking about them.

But, I never got that far. Had no idea they existed. And I visited the town where they were located at least weekly during this period as my girlfriend at the time lived there.

The SSPX was totally invisible to me. And it remains so to many Catholics. It could do so much more good if it no longer was.

It would not have been invisible had you been seeking for it.
Actually the NO can be as valid and licit as the TLM is.
For good or bad it was promulgated officially by a sitting Supreme Pontiff who had the authority to do so.
So the NO can be valid and licit.
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