Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
(09-15-2011, 01:32 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote:
(09-15-2011, 12:40 PM)Gerard Wrote: The SSPX should ask if the "submission of will and intellect" is any different than the formulation of Vatican I in defining the required obedience as "true hierarchichal obedience" which was originally formulated by St. Thomas Aquinas.  

And also, the question is raised, "Is it moral to submit the will and intellect to an exercise of the Magisterium that is fallible?"  Don't you require the intellect to determine if the criteria for infallibility and consequently submission is there?  If not, why bother to have infallibility at all?  You become obligated to respond in a servile way whether it's by the power of the Holy Ghost working through the papacy or the power of the Devil working through the man who happens to be Pope.  

These are excellent questions. 

Yes.  Here are some questions Archbishop Lefebvre said he would ask Rome, if ever they tried to start up discussions with him again:

Archbishop Lefebvre interview with Fideliter Magazine late 1988 Wrote:Interviewer: ... In your last letter to the Holy Father142 you declared that you were waiting for a more propitious time for the return of Rome to Tradition. What do you think of a possible re-opening of the dialogue with Rome?

Archbishop Lefebvre: We do not have the same outlook on a reconciliation. Cardinal Ratzinger sees it as reducing us, bringing us back to Vatican II. We see it as a return of Rome to Tradition. We don’t agree; it is a dialogue of death. I can’t speak much of the future, mine is behind me, but if I live a little while, supposing that Rome calls for a renewed dialogue, then, I will put conditions. I shall not accept being in the position where I was put during the dialogue. No more.

I will place the discussion at the doctrinal level: “Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk! As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.”

Thus, the positions will be clear.

The stakes are not small. 


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Re: Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians - by B of Navarre - 09-15-2011, 01:46 PM

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