Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
(09-16-2011, 03:51 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 03:40 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 03:34 PM)dan hunter Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 03:25 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-16-2011, 03:23 PM)dan hunter Wrote: I know of several good orthodox priests who offer the NO Mass the way the Church wants them to.
They offer the NO the way I have seen the HF offer it.
Their sermons have been about the Sacrifice of Mass and all points of Faith as taught in the Catechism of Trent and the Pius X catechism.
I am very certain, though I could be wrong, that these priests have the right intention.

Of course, there are exceptions. No-one ever agued that there aren't any real Catholic priests left in the conciliar establishment.

But the system is fashioned so that these priests disappear in the long run.
If true, why do you think so?

Because the Novus Ordo was fashioned with the end of true Catholicism in mind. At least, its architects have been honest enough to admit it.

The principles upon which the Novus Ordo rests are false and have been condmned by the Church in the past. Its faith is alien to the faith of the Church. Its fruits are rotten. The impact it has had on the faith of clergy and laity alike during these last decades has been absolutely devastating. The Church today is barely recognisable.

The question is not why I think so but rather why you think it isn't so. It's about time Christians wake up and smell the coffee: they have been duped.

What evidence is there that those who designed the NO had the goal of the end of Catholicism?  What are these alleged principles on which it rests?  How do you know that the things you attribute to the NO were actually caused by it and not by countless other changes in society?  The Anglican "church" has had very similar things happen in it without a V2 or NO.  We live in a time of massive secularization and much of what we see can be explained by that.  Clinging to these over-simplified answers that you use is not being awake and aware.

These matters have been shown to you time and again since you've been around. The very last time, INP took the pains to go fruitlessly through these points one by one so that in the end you should just simply dismiss it all, alleging that you couldn't or didn't have the capacity to decide so you just "followed the pope."

So, please, stop. Don't feign ignorance yet again, it gets tiresome.

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Re: Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians - by Vetus Ordo - 09-16-2011, 04:25 PM

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