Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
(06-02-1970, 04:24 AM)dan hunter Wrote: I guess you are morE holy and learned than Pope Paul VI.
I can't testify to Stubborn's holiness or learnedness, but he does seem to be less willing than Paul VI to jettison the treasure of our irreplaceable liturgical patrimony. It is an objective fact that Pope Paul presided over the deliberate (attempted) eradication of  the holy rites of the Church and their replacement with inexpertly crafted simulacra. 

Stubborn - or any faithful Catholic - has not only the right but the duty to point out the glaring deficiency of these rites - to the Pope himself if necessary.  If - as Trads - we are willing to admit to the spiritual poverty of the NO (that is, that a Pope could legislate liturgical changes harmful to the Chuch), we should at least consider the possibility that the legislation itself was not legitimate - if for no other reason than to reject that conclusion.

Regardless of whether we accept or reject the conclusion, we have still engaged in an act of judgment of the Pope's actions. Even if we choose rightly, we have still arrogated that faculty of choice to ourselves.  In other words rejecting the validity of the NO doesn't make us "holier" or "more Catholic" or more "learned" than the Pope any more than "preferring" the old rite does. If not then why are we here claiming to be Trads rather than "obedient" reform of the reform Neo-Caths?  I think we need to be honest with ourselves that "preference" for the old mass while remaining "obedient" is itself a kind of inward dissent.  This is central quandary that a Trad must face - the best resolution of which is by no means certain to me.

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Re: Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians - by Landelinus - 09-17-2011, 11:23 PM

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