Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians
(09-25-2011, 07:07 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(09-25-2011, 06:55 PM)Nic Wrote:
(09-23-2011, 03:44 PM)JayneK Wrote: I can just imagine you on the Titanic complaining about people moving the deck chairs.  "Look how the ship is sinking!  Obviously moving the deck chairs has caused it!"  Hello? THERE'S AN ICEBERG!!!!  You are the one who needs to wake up and realize that we live in a time of unprecedented social change and most of the problems you attribute to the NO would be happening if we still had the TLM.  

I believe that that TLM is a better Mass but all this nonsense about fruits of the NO is a crock.

You ever stop and think that since the Church is the guiding light of the world that the reason why all of the "social change" in the wrong direction began to occur in the 60's was due to the Church letting her guard down... WAY down?  Wait...when was Vatican II held again?  O yeah, in the 1960's.  That seems odd...

So you honestly think that if Vatican II and the New Mass never happened the Church would still be in this sorry state?

I don't think it would be quite as bad, since a better liturgy would help to counter some of the problems, but there would still be a crisis.

No way!  It was Vatican II and its errors and ambiguities that allowed all of the problems that the Church is being destroyed by to take place.  Without Vatican II and the New Mass, these problems would simply not exist.  The Latin Mass existed (and still exists) for centuries without the abuses and sacrileges that are allowed and promoted by the New Mass and the idealism behind it.

I believe that the Church is the guiding light of the world.  I believe that in the middle of the 20th century, the infiltrators hiding within the Catholic Church won a great victory with Vatican II.  This is the same era of all of the "social change" of the world.  When I put 1 and 1 together I get 2.  These infiltrators and usurpers actually created a new religion within the official structure of the Church and they use this hierarchial structure to further along this new religion.  They call this religion "Catholicism," but it is not hard at all to see that it is not when you use Tradition as your guide.  This is why the usurpers exclusively use Vatican II to the exclusion of all other councils - this is the beginning of their religion. 

Now, since the official hierarchial structure of the Catholic Church is where the true religion always has been and always will be, it is not hard to figure out all of the confusion of the past 50 years.  In essence, TWO religions now exist within this structure.  This happened once already in the past with the Arian Crisis, which absolutely proves that it can happen again and IS happening again.  Clerics within the official structure of the Church can preach whatever religion they want from their positions of authority.  In times of orthodoxy these clerics would be swiftly dealt with - but when the status quo changes drastically, as it did with Vatican II and the teachings of Arius, they are allowed and even encouraged to preach a different religion.  The only way to fix the problem is to publicly remove the two religions that exist in close proximity to one another - it is this that will end the confusion because then everyone claiming "Catholicism" will be forced to choose a side - they will be forced into picking which "brand" of Catholicism better suits them: the Catholicism of all-time with the Latin Mass as its Ordinary Form, or the "Catholicism" that began with the advent of Vatican II with the New Mass as its Ordinary Form.

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Re: Tornielli: “Peace” agreement reached between Vatican and Lefebvrians - by Nic - 09-26-2011, 09:49 AM

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