The minor orders must be restored!
#11
I don't really know anything about this subject so forgive my ignorance.  Did they stop doing the tonsure altogether, or just make the bald spot smaller?  Whats the history of this?  When I was a kid, under or about 5 I remember seeing a guy riding a bicycle with a tonsure haircut and a black or dark brown robe.   This was around 1989.  I didn't know anything about Catholicism, but I thought he must be special.
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#12
In the old days, getting the first tonsure marked a man as officially becoming a cleric, a churchman. In the early Middle Ages it meant a full headshave, as Saint Paul did. In those times, a man with short hair was a serf, or in this case, God's serf. A warrior or noble had long hair.

Over time this tonsure got smaller and smaller. By the 20th century it had become only a few locks cut off the top, and not something you had to keep shaving for the rest of your life. The Conciliar reform got rid of it entirely.

Today the tonsure has lost some meaning, I think, because we're back to short hair being the norm for men, and broke domes are even fashionable now.
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#13
ALL TRADITION MUST BE RESTORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
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#14
(09-17-2011, 03:40 PM)richness of tradition Wrote: In the minor orders,  one could not be married I think?   But I believe the deacons in the NO can be.

Only after receiving the subdiaconate (a major order, though not a sacrament) was one bound to celibacy.

All students of the University of Paris in the Middle Ages were ordained to the minor orders, but they were not prohibited from marrying.
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#15

On a similar subject when is one allowed to wear a clerical collar?  When one has received tonsure (in the old system)?  Then they would be considered clerics I guess.
But I think religious brothers can wear a kind of clerical collar too.  I recall being given a ride home from some Benedictine brothers and they wore the same kind of collar a priest would wear.
Something I have wondered about..
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#16
(09-17-2011, 10:43 PM)richness of tradition Wrote: On a similar subject when is one allowed to wear a clerical collar?  When one has received tonsure (in the old system)? 

Under the 1983 Code, only those who have been ordained deacons are considered clerics. If the minor orders were restored, I presume this would be changed, since the rite presumes that one becomes a cleric upon receiving tonsure.
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#17
(09-17-2011, 03:40 PM)richness of tradition Wrote: In the minor orders,  one could not be married I think?   But I believe the deacons in the NO can be.

sadly, anything goes in the NO
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#18
(09-17-2011, 10:43 PM)richness of tradition Wrote: On a similar subject when is one allowed to wear a clerical collar?  When one has received tonsure (in the old system)?   Then they would be considered clerics I guess.

Yes. What Resurrexi posted in reply to you illustrates a bit of a problem, though. In the Novus Ordo seminaries, although some of the more conservative seminaries have promoted the clerical collar, they are not considered clerics until they've been ordained deacons. They don't have tonsure or minor orders, or subdiaconate.

BUT, the traditional seminaries still do. So, is a 3rd year FSSP seminarian really a cleric? Or is he just pretending to be? I believe they are really clerics, but it's a tough canon law question.

Quote:But I think religious brothers can wear a kind of clerical collar too.  I recall being given a ride home from some Benedictine brothers and they wore the same kind of collar a priest would wear.
Something I have wondered about..

Yes, some religious wear clerical collars as part of their habit, even if they're not actually clerics. I'm not sure what the origin of this is.
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