Society of St. Pius X “Regularization” Not as Easy as You Think
#21
(09-20-2011, 04:48 AM)karyn_anne Wrote: He has brought up some very pertinent issues....and with my decision to enter an SSPX- affiliated Dominican convent just a few months, I realise that I might have to face certain issues down the road that your ordinary parishoners in the pew won't have to counter.

Am praying so hard for this!
Prayers for you.
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#22
(09-20-2011, 04:59 AM)City Smurf Wrote:
(09-20-2011, 04:48 AM)karyn_anne Wrote: He has brought up some very pertinent issues....and with my decision to enter an - affiliated Dominican convent just a few months, I realise that I might have to face certain issues down the road that your ordinary parishoners in the pew won't have to counter.

Am praying so hard for this!

Entering the Society seminaries etc., is one thing, their Holy Orders and Masses are valid if illicit, and you can justify Confession to yourself by way of supplied jurisdiction.. but I am not aware or any provision in the Church that allows for supplied jurisdiction to be applied to the profession of religious vows.

But religious professions are not sacraments like Confession or the Mass, so I'm not sure how the question of validity comes in. Do you mean something like whether karyn_anne would be canonically a professed religious or not? Surely profession in an SSPX-affiliated convent or order would be just as valid as any other convent or order, wouldn't it?

Or is it a question of governance? "The Dominican Family then, consists of friars, nuns, sisters of apostolic life, members of secular institutes, priestly fraternities and laity who belong to fraternities or new groups accepted by the Order." I don't know how the cloistered nuns (Second Order) are organized, so maybe that is the issue, but I understood that sisters (Third Order Religious) are organized as independent congregations with their own Superiors. They're part of the Dominican Family, but not directly under the jurisdiction of the Master of the Order. So an SSPX-affiliated congregation of sisters would be just as regular as any other.
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#23
Why not just cut to the chase?


(09-19-2011, 11:21 AM)Ineffable1 Wrote: By John Vennari

          • Can Tradition fully operate under a Novus Ordo hierarchy?     

According to the Novus Ordo hierarchy, that answer has always been "no" since +45 years ago - nothing has or even remotely shows any signs of changing far as that goes so why would they want to sign anything?

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#24
(09-20-2011, 08:24 AM)Stubborn Wrote: Why not just cut to the chase?


(09-19-2011, 11:21 AM)Ineffable1 Wrote: By John Vennari

          • Can Tradition fully operate under a Novus Ordo hierarchy?     

According to the Novus Ordo hierarchy, that answer has always been "no" since +45 years ago - nothing has or even remotely shows any signs of changing far as that goes so why would they want to sign anything?


This.
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#25
I admire John Vennari's cautious approach. It is consoling in this age of great spiritual recklessness, imprudence, and ambition--all marks of pride.

Bp. Fellay is acting prudently according to a practical doubt, a basic concept of moral theology:
Fr. Davis Wrote:If I doubt only in the abstract and speculatively, my doubt is speculative; if I am in doubt, here and now, as to the morality of a given concrete act which I am about to perform or to continue, my doubt is said to be a practical doubt.

Henry Davis, S.J., Moral and Pastoral Theology, vol. 1: Principles, 3d ed., rev. and enl. (London: Sheed & Ward, 1938), p. 69.

He continues by explaining the moral obligations that follow a practical doubt:
Fr. Davis Wrote:Obviously, I may not act in such circumstances, because I must act with a certain conscience, that is, with a conscience morally certain of the rectitude of a given act. If I did not wait for certainty but acted in doubt, I should be placing myself, quite deliberately, in the way of doing what my conscience cannot certainly approve.

Ibid.

The fate of countless souls is at risk.
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#26
(09-20-2011, 05:50 AM)JMartyr Wrote:
(09-20-2011, 04:48 AM)karyn_anne Wrote: He has brought up some very pertinent issues....and with my decision to enter an SSPX- affiliated Dominican convent just a few months, I realise that I might have to face certain issues down the road that your ordinary parishoners in the pew won't have to counter.

Am praying so hard for this!
Prayers for you.

Thank you so much. I believe that the SSPX would certainly do very well to be "regularised" if things are very clear that it does not have to compromise with what it has done so far (whether this is a possibility or not is another matter).

The difficulties stated by Mr. Vennari must certainly be considered, but even immensely difficult obstacles must not prevent the Society from doing what is proper and advantageous.
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#27
(09-20-2011, 08:06 AM)NOtard Wrote: But religious professions are not sacraments like Confession or the Mass, so I'm not sure how the question of validity comes in. Do you mean something like whether karyn_anne would be canonically a professed religious or not? Surely profession in an -affiliated convent or order would be just as valid as any other convent or order, wouldn't it?

Or is it a question of governance? "The Dominican Family then, consists of friars, nuns, sisters of apostolic life, members of secular institutes, priestly fraternities and laity who belong to fraternities or new groups accepted by the Order." I don't know how the cloistered nuns (Second Order) are organized, so maybe that is the issue, but I understood that sisters (Third Order Religious) are organized as independent congregations with their own Superiors. They're part of the Dominican Family, but not directly under the jurisdiction of the Master of the Order. So an SSPX-affiliated congregation of sisters would be just as regular as any other.

I may be misunderstanding the situation.  Is this Dominican convent affiliated with the SSPX anything like what the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer were like?  My understanding is that jurisdiction is necessary for the profession of religious vows to be valid (i.e. for them to be actually binding on the person) and I don't know of any argument that religious vows fall under the supplied jurisdiction argument.
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