Another video of Fr. Barron: Good atheists can be saved. Vatican II told us so.
(09-25-2011, 03:25 AM)ggreg Wrote: This would however put the vast majority of humans who ever lived into Hello or limbo. The problem for me with this is simple. I know a lot of people who are poor, not particularly intelligent, confused by religion, taken in by different arguments because they don't have the intelligence to understand them. And yet they are very Charitable. They are like the Good Samaritan who was neither a Christian or a faithful Jew. So what happened to him? If the Samaritan is burning in Hell now then what was the point of the story?

I also know some Traditionalist Catholics and Novus Ordo types who are very uncharitable, very interested in material possesions and who don't seem to be troubled at the notion that their nice, decent neighbour, policeman, greengrocer, fireman who live morally far better than average lives are going to burn in Hell for all eternity.

That bothers me. For one thing I like these people. And for another I am far from sure how I would love a God whom damned these people to Hell for all eternity. It makes salvation a lottery and pretty much dams every pre-christian society.

No it doesn't dam every pre-christian society.  When talking about baptism by desire Archbishop Lefebvre said "people in those countries where Christianity has not penetrated".  Romans 11:25 says "For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in."  Obviously that means until the Catholic Faith is brought to all peoples and nations.  As we speak there are not many nations that the Catholic Faith has not been brought to.  Saudi Arabia comes to mind.  There is a flourishing underground Catholic Church in China.

Most Protestants don't know the true history of the Reformation so I tend to agree with you Greg about decent Protestants.  Let's hope so anyways for their sake.  But do Catholic prelates or even a pope have the authority to make this judgement?  It's like in the last 45 years the Vatican has forgotten about their commission to take His Word to all peoples and nations.

Forty five years ago Protestants were outside of the Catholic Church.  I have read a Vatican document by Cardinal Kasper, the former President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (and as such, President of the Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews) that said Protestants are part of the Catholic Church whether they realize it or not (probably not in those exact word).  This same document by Cardinal Kasper also said that Jews may have justification without Jesus Christ.  Cardinal Kasper had served as its President from 2001 to 2010.  I know this document was still in the Vatican web site about a year ago.

Dominus Iesus, published on August 6, 2000 states that people outside of Christianity are "in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation", and that non-Catholic Christian communities had "defects."  Cardinal Kasper was critical of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith document Dominus Iesus, which he believed was an offense to the Jewish people.

In Father Paul Kramer's book 'The Devil's Final Battle' he writes about Eastern Orthodox prelates that wanted to convert to Catholicism but were discouraged from doing so by Vatican officials.  Talk about confusing.  ???

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Re: Another video of Fr. Barron: Good atheists can be saved. Vatican II told us so. - by mikemac - 09-25-2011, 01:53 PM

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