What Pope Benedict really said about Eucharistic adoration
#71
The Holy Ghost of course does not choose a Pope in the sense in which He chose Mary,  one women among many,  to be His spouse.  Popes can deny Christ.
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#72
(09-24-2011, 01:18 AM)Doce Me Wrote: The Holy Ghost of course does not choose a Pope in the sense in which He chose Mary,  one women among many,  to be His spouse.  Popes can deny Christ.

The problem is, due to the influence of the charismatic movement and some unfounded assertions of Pope John XXIII, that the Holy Ghost is making over, positive decisions in the organizational structure of the Church.  The idea of the "negative" charism of the Holy Ghost protecting the Church from error is out the window in favor of these fantasies that have more to do with Pentecostalism than Catholicism.
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#73
(09-23-2011, 05:51 PM)archdiocesan Wrote: Gerard,

What can I say? Please forgive me for failing to credit Mr Derksen's ability to operate a scanner. Had I known my handling of the matter was going to form the basis for so authoritative a psychological profile, I would have taken more care.

I'm not the one you need to ask forgiveness from.  And my point is that the events of your concealing your sources and your reasons for doing so is an indicator of your ethical choices. 

Quote: As for your claim about God not choosing popes, and my remarks bordering on a transgression of the First Commandment: very interesting. Have you written to the Pope on this subject? I'm sure he'd welcome your advice on how the Roman Missal might be revised to remove this "grotesque distortion":
Quote:O GOD, the Shepherd and Ruler of all Thy faithful people, mercifully look upon Thy servant, N., whom Thou hast chosen as the chief Shepherd to preside over Thy Church; grant him, we beseech Thee, so to edify, both by word and example, those over whom he hath charge, that he may attain unto everlasting life, together with the flock committed unto him. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

I would argue that there is a linquistic issue in the meaning of the words. Similar to the reference of priests in the Roman Catechism to be thought of as "gods."  And, since I found that same prayer for a mass said for the bishop of Tulsa, I'm sure you aren't going to argue that "God chose" as in revealed to the world the person He wanted to be bishop of  Tulsa.  Or it could be as simple as an ultramontanist did the English translation from the Latin. 


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#74
(09-24-2011, 01:39 AM)Gerard Wrote: I would argue that there is a linquistic issue in the meaning of the words.

:laughing:
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#75
As I read this, I conclude that whatever the translation says or doesn't say isn't important. What's important is making the decision to commit oneself to weekly adoration. Once one signs up, it totally transforms your life. I can't recommend it strongly enough. What happens there isn't a one-sided conversation with a God who only exists there. We know God is omnipotent, but there is great hope, joy and comfort in seeing Him physically present in the same room as the apostles did. I use a little red Eucharistic Adoration Hour booklet printed in 1945 that my mother gave me. It takes an hour to pray through it. There is a rosary, the litany of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, veneration of the 5 wounds, the St. Francis prayer, prayer for the Holy Father, prayers for purgatorial souls, act of faith, act of contrition--in short, all the necessary prayers from the first chapters of the Roman Catholic Missal 1962. Basically, you're making reparation to God for all acts of human depravity, neglect and disobedience throughout the world. You're staying awake with Jesus for one hour in the garden of Gethsemane. You are asking for intentions for yourself, your loved ones, and the world. My red book states that adorers will receive indulgences for the holy hour so long as they receive the sacraments, stay in a state of grace, and pray for the intentions of the Holy Father. It lists the 12 promises made to St. Margaret-Mary:

1. I will give them all the graces necessary for their state of life.

2. I will establish peace in their families.

3. I will console them in all their troubles.

4. They shall find in my heart an assured refuge during life and especially at the hour of their death.

5. I will pour abundant blessings on all their undertakings.

6. Sinners shall find in My Heart the source of an infinite ocean of mercy.

7. Tepid souls shall become fervent.

8. Fervent souls shall speedily rise to great perfection.

9. I will bless the homes where an image of My Heart shall be exposed and honored.

10. I will give to priests the power of touching the most hardened hearts.

11. Those who propagate this devotion shall have their names written in My Heart, never to be effaced.

12. The all-powerful love of my heart will grant to all those who shall receive communion on the first friday of nine consecutive months the grace of final repentance; they shall not die under my displeasure, nor without receiving their sacraments; my heart shall be their assured refuge at that last hour.
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#76
(09-24-2011, 02:21 AM)archdiocesan Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 01:39 AM)Gerard Wrote: I would argue that there is a linquistic issue in the meaning of the words.

:laughing:


So, you are arguing that God positively chooses not only the Pope but the bishop of Tulsa as well.  Glad to know that Revelation did not close with the death of John the Apostle. 

And I'm sure you refer to your priests as gods and Angels, don't you?  So, they are gods and Angels, right?

From the Roman Catechism: 

"Bishops and priests being, as they are, God's interpreters and ambassadors, empowered in His name to teach mankind the divine law and the rules of conduct, and holding, as they do, His place on earth, it is evident that no nobler function than theirs can be imagined. justly, therefore, are they called not only Angels, but even gods., because of the fact that they exercise in our midst the power and prerogatives of the immortal God."
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#77
Gerard,

You are embarrassing yourself. Do you know the difference between divine providence and divine revelation? Do you think the text of the Roman Missal - and, indeed, the collect for the Feast of St Pius V - borders on violation of the First Commandment?

[Image: piusv.jpg]

Do you, in short, have any idea what you're talking about?
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#78
(09-24-2011, 12:56 PM)archdiocesan Wrote: Gerard,

You are embarrassing yourself. Do you know the difference between divine providence and divine revelation? Do you think the text of the Roman Missal - and, indeed, the collect for the Feast of St Pius V - borders on violation of the First Commandment?

[Image: piusv.jpg]

Do you, in short, have any idea what you're talking about?

I'm not quite sure that the collect of SPV exactly contradicts the idea that what God wills and what he allows are different things.  Besides, God could have directly ordained the papacy of BXVI as a chastisement, not as some kind of savior of Tradition.
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#79
Quote:I'm not quite sure that the collect of SPV exactly contradicts the idea that what God wills and what he allows are different things.

Of course not. That's an important distinction. But it's clear that the Roman Missal uses the language of divine choice with respect to both Roman Pontiffs in general and at least St Pius V in particular (I've not bothered looking up others). Since Gerard made the astonishing claim that the words I quoted about "God's chosen Pontiffs" bordered on a violation of the First Commandment, I thought it worth noting that such language is... how best to put this?... traditional.
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#80
(09-24-2011, 06:22 PM)archdiocesan Wrote:
Quote:I'm not quite sure that the collect of SPV exactly contradicts the idea that what God wills and what he allows are different things.

Of course not. That's an important distinction. But it's clear that the Roman Missal uses the language of divine choice with respect to both Roman Pontiffs in general and at least St Pius V in particular (I've not bothered looking up others). Since Gerard made the astonishing claim that the words I quoted about "God's chosen Pontiffs" bordered on a violation of the First Commandment, I thought it worth noting that such language is... how best to put this?... traditional.

I'm just saying that if God willed the VII papacies, he probably didn't will them in the same way that he did SPV/X ...or perhaps for different reasons, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: 600 posts!
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