Pope's failure in Germany
#21
(09-24-2011, 04:46 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 04:39 PM)City Smurf Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 03:56 PM)Dewi Wrote: A curious fact that may or may not have any relevance (take from what you want) is that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" do not appear in the whole of the address.

Yet God is mentioned.  Did Jesus Christ cease being God and if He did, why did I miss the memo?  You'd think something like that would have been read out Mass..

To be fair, the Incarnation is one of the central tenets of Christianity. Failing to mention it specifically does seem a little too ecumenical. Although, I suspect the Holy Father wanted to avoid preaching to the choir in his speech. He was talking to the German government, after all, and something tells me they aren't a particularly religious bunch.

Then the more reason they should hear it, or be reminded. Not that I'm criticizing the pope. Some used to go to brothels. In other words, I think we tend to watch a little too closely, and if we are, you can rest assured that others are watching very closely too. How would you like to live in a fishbowl like this? It's bad enough when you try to think out loud here and view a topic from above, or outside the proverbial box, with fresh eyes and run into all those swimming in the mainstream. The Holy Father is much more covered and criticized.

In the end, you can blame the "faithful" for putting Mammon over God. The problem is wimpy Catholics who saw the easy way and chose it. Simple as that.

So instead of criticizing and being scandalized. Do something! Sometimes we sound like Pharisees. "You can't do that on the Sabbath Day!" said with a whiny voice in need of some cheese.

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#22
(09-24-2011, 04:53 PM)City Smurf Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 04:46 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: To be fair, the Incarnation is one of the central tenets of Christianity. Failing to mention it specifically does seem a little too ecumenical. Although, I suspect the Holy Father wanted to avoid preaching to the choir in his speech. He was talking to the German government, after all, and something tells me they aren't a particularly religious bunch.
I don't understand the statement about it seeming a little "too ecumenical". 

I meant just referring to God without mentioning Christ specifically.

(09-24-2011, 04:53 PM)City Smurf Wrote: However, it would have been nice to have talked about the Social Kingship of Christ more explicitly, I don't see anything overwhelmingly troublesome about the address.

I agree with this. I didn't mean to come off as very critical of the Holy Father.
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#23
(09-24-2011, 04:53 PM)City Smurf Wrote: However, it would have been nice to have talked about the Social Kingship of Christ more explicitly, I don't see anything overwhelmingly troublesome about the address.

Please, the man has been preaching "healthy laicism" for years.

There was no "implicit" Social Kingship of Christ in his address: he doesn't believe in it.
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#24
(09-24-2011, 05:22 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 04:53 PM)City Smurf Wrote: However, it would have been nice to have talked about the Social Kingship of Christ more explicitly, I don't see anything overwhelmingly troublesome about the address.

Please, the man has been preaching "healthy laicism" for years.

There was no "implicit" Social Kingship of Christ in his address: he doesn't believe in it.

Exactly. 
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#25
(09-24-2011, 01:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: Unlike the World youth day visit, this is not a pastoral visit. This is a state visit. The pope was invited as a head of state by the German head of state.

Christ cannot be absent from politics. He is the foundation of all political power.

But I guess it's complicated to bring Christ into the equation for someone who believes so strongly in "healthy laicism."
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#26
(09-24-2011, 06:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 01:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: Unlike the World youth day visit, this is not a pastoral visit. This is a state visit. The pope was invited as a head of state by the German head of state.

Christ cannot be absent from politics. He is the foundation of all political power.

But I guess it's complicated to bring Christ into the equation for someone who believes so strongly in "healthy laicism."

The Pope did speak about God quite a bit, you know. Yes, it would have been even better if he had mentioned the Social Kingship of Christ, but it's not like his speech was an example of raving secularist propaganda.
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#27
(09-24-2011, 06:52 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 06:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 01:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: Unlike the World youth day visit, this is not a pastoral visit. This is a state visit. The pope was invited as a head of state by the German head of state.

Christ cannot be absent from politics. He is the foundation of all political power.

But I guess it's complicated to bring Christ into the equation for someone who believes so strongly in "healthy laicism."

The Pope did speak about God quite a bit, you know. Yes, it would have been even better if he had mentioned the Social Kingship of Christ, but it's not like his speech was an example of raving secularist propaganda.

Wow, the Pope spoke of God? How courageous of him.

Let's be serious here: all Christians (Catholic, Protestants, Orthodox) believe in God, not to mention religious Jews and Muslims. That's not the same thing as believing in Christ, much less believing in the His Social Kingship.

In the philosophical scheme of "healthy laicism", all religions contribute to build up society and its laws, respecting each other as a unique and positive contributor for the common good. This is not about preaching the Gospel but about building the New World Order.
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#28
(09-24-2011, 06:57 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 06:52 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 06:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-24-2011, 01:49 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: Unlike the World youth day visit, this is not a pastoral visit. This is a state visit. The pope was invited as a head of state by the German head of state.

Christ cannot be absent from politics. He is the foundation of all political power.

But I guess it's complicated to bring Christ into the equation for someone who believes so strongly in "healthy laicism."

The Pope did speak about God quite a bit, you know. Yes, it would have been even better if he had mentioned the Social Kingship of Christ, but it's not like his speech was an example of raving secularist propaganda.

Wow, the Pope spoke of God? How courageous of him.

It's certainly more than what you're willing to give him credit for. You're acting as if he thinks religion has no place in the public sphere. This is clearly not the case.

(09-24-2011, 06:57 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: In the philosophical scheme of "healthy laicism", all religions contribute to build up society and its laws, respecting each other as a unique and positive contributor for the common good. This is not about preaching the Gospel but about building the New World Order.


Throughout the speech, the Holy Father argues that Western concepts of law and human dignity are rooted in Christianity and its acceptance of the classical traditions of law and philosophy. He obviously believes that Christianity has played an essential role in shaping Western political discourse. He isn't treating all religions as equal.
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#29
A pope speaking of CHRIST
sip
no vetus thaw just crazy
txk txk
where u ever hear that one from?
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#30
"Hopefully Bp Fellay won’t take the bait."
What "bait"
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