Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments
#28
(09-27-2011, 12:47 AM)K3vinhood Wrote: The Fathers of the Church along with the Gospel shows that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

God could apply the graces of Baptism in the womb or in some other way as God can do anything, but we can't just assume he does that, the Fathers seem to think that he does not.

That's very true.  But use your brain for a minute.  God sent his only Son to die for us, so that we wouldn't have to.  That says something about his character.  He could let us all burn in hell, BUT HE DOESN"T WANT US TO.  He would rather die on a cross when he doesn't deserve it, and he would rather we continually spit in his face and beat him by our post-baptismal sins, but come back to him in earnest after each time, as long as we actually come back to him.  He offers baptism and confession so that any adult sinner who actually chooses to sin can come back to him at any time, avoiding his own spiritual death, and God willingly bears the insult because he loves each and every one of us so much he'd rather repeatedly bear the insult of tens of billions of souls than lose just one of them to hell.

But for infants, if they die prior to baptism, we can only hope that God somehow applies baptismal grace to their souls.  But you say the Fathers believed he didn't.  Now, match it up with the character of God with us.  If God will bend over backwards to save us who repeatedly throw mud in his face, often times at the exact same time we are professing to his face our undying love for him, how much more would he do so for someone who, through no fault of their own, was conceived into a condition over which they were given no choice whatsoever?  If God is immutable, his character doesn't change, than the only logical conclusion is that of course God makes a way possible to save those infants.

But the Fathers believed he didn't.  If he doesn't, that means he shows mercy and compassion to the most undeserving, but has neither for the most deserving.  Now, we do know also from Scripture about God's character that he likes to make the first last and the last first.  This would fit into that, but scripturally the first that he made last were those who arrogantly thought they deserved to be first, and those last that he made first were those who humbly recognized their imperfections - so it's possible this doesn't apply to infants who have no control over their situation.  But, if God shows mercy on us but refuses to show the same mercy on unbaptized infants, he IS fickle.  This is one of those few either/or situations in Catholicism.  Either you believe God would save such infants, or you don't.  But if you don't, you necessarily believe in a fickle God.  There is no way for you to avoid that latter conclusion.
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Messages In This Thread
Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments - by Jesse - 09-24-2011, 02:57 PM
Re: Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments - by Melkite - 09-27-2011, 09:24 AM



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