Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments
(09-28-2011, 08:52 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(09-27-2011, 10:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(09-27-2011, 10:04 PM)Melkite Wrote: I'm not saying there isn't plenty of things you can point to to support such a position.  I'm just saying, this position can't both be true and God be immutable or not fickle at the same time.

I'm afraid I'm missing your point.

Christ's death profits the elect alone. That was foreordained from all eternity.

Also, the manner in which you reference predestination, it makes me wonder if it really is nothing more than a way of attributing action to a passive reality.  So, for example, Christ's death profit the elect alone.  Yes, this is true, because anyone who is in hell has not profited from Christ's death.  And it was foreordained from all eternity.  But what actually happened?  Did they not profit from Christ's death because they weren't elect?  Or were they not elect because they didn't profit from Christ's death?  Did God actively not elect them, precluding any chance for them to profit from Christ's death, or did they refuse God's offer of mercy and forgiveness, and thus any profit of Christ's death, and because of that cannot be elected by God?

I think we've been over this a few times in the predestination threads. Election is God's unfathomable decree, not ours. It is certain that we are drawn to Him because first and foremost He moves us to do so. The elect are not simply considered elect because they cooperated with God's grace (post factum): they are "elect," hence the name, because God chose them from all eternity to be with Him (ante factum). You see, there's an unsurpassable mystery here, a mystery where God's immutable decree and our own free will are reconciled. Laying all speculation aside, we must confess along with the apostle: "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Romans 9:21)

Messages In This Thread
Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments - by Jesse - 09-24-2011, 02:57 PM
Re: Possessed Priest and Valid Sacraments - by Vetus Ordo - 09-28-2011, 10:22 AM

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