Defending the Literal Adam.
This is the man who is the most responsible for bringing me back to the Faith and he is the reason that I discovered and became curious about the Tridentine Mass.

The following work completely destroys and I mean point by point any argument against a literal Adam.

by apologist Dave Armstrong.

    The whole human race stems from one single human pair. (Sent. certa.) (p. 96)

    . . . the Church teaches that the first human beings, Adam and Eve, are the progenitors of the whole human race (monogenism). The teaching of the unity of the human race is not, indeed, a dogma, but it is a necessary pre-supposition of the dogma of Original Sin and Redemption. According to a decision of the Bible Commission, the unity of the human race is to be reckoned among those facts which affect the foundations of the Christian religion, and which, on this account, are to be understood in their literal, historical sense (D 2123). The Encyclical 'Humani Generis' of Pius XII (1950) rejects polygenism on account of its incompatibility with the revealed doctrine of original sin (D 3028).

In English: Catholics are not at liberty to deny this belief. If they do, the dogmas of original sin and redemption go down along with the denial of the historical persons Adam and Eve. That is why this is supremely important to believe, and why I think it is equally important to correct a person who is teaching publicly, contrary to the Church's doctrines.
Nothing new here. We have debated this on the forum several years ago. I stopped going to an EF mass in Ashford Kent because the priest who said it was a member of The Faith Movement which has all sorts of weird ideas about evolution. He described Adam and Eve as in his opinion being a tribe of hominids who had evolved to self-realisation of good and evil and then did some sort of offence. He wouldn't give an example of what that offence might be and why the old and young and the mentally handicapped would lose their innocence as a result.

Nor is it obvious that they were kicked out of the garden of Eden.  Evolution needs to be proven wrong and condemned. It has done enormous damage to people.

Absolutely right.

You probably all know about the Kolbe 'Centre for Creation' based in Canada but supported worldwide by scientists and priests and informed laypeople?

It is thoroughly Catholic, welding together scholastic philosophy, traditional dogma and scientific discoveries in genetics, cosmology and sedimentology to AFFIRM the Truth of God's divine Word regarding our first parents, original sin, The Flood and the Ark etc.  Brilliant stuff is out there, why let the Protestants steal a march on us regarding Creation Science...?

There are Protestant sites which are definitely well worth supplementing one's research with - such as Australia's 'Answers in Genesis', California's ICR and Britain's C.S.M. or Creation Science Movement (Chairman Dr David Rosevear).  But some of these sites contain slanders against the Pope etc.  What the Kolbe Centre does in a most eloquent and informed way is demonstrate that the Catholic Church, in its Councils and Saints, has a long-forgotten heritage of belief in creation and sober research into the claims of scripture.

On a personal note, at the time of my conversion I became pre-occupied with two things.  First, where can I find the Mass? I mean the true Mass. And secondly, I set about exposing the psuedo-science of Evolution for the evil ideology it is. 

This latter focus was a bit of a mystery to me, because previously, like a lot of people, I had just swallowed evolution as a 'fact'.  As a convert I was just repulsed by it, and the more I learnt about it the more disgusted I got.  When I found that the ideology did not even fit the scientific facts and that many other catholics (people more intelligent and better scientifically qualified than me) had utterly rejected it for the truth, then with a sense of relief I parted company with it for good.

Later on, the mystery of this shared focus during my conversion was revealed to me, as ten years later I attended a traditional Easter Vigil on Saturday, 'Lumen Christi' and so on - was so evocative, it felt like my conversion all over again, but on fast forward.  There was the true Mass, the Mass as sacrifice. The first Easter and a Mass Faithful to Our Lord and His Apostles.  And there also the Church, in Her wisdom, had inserted readings (p601 of the 1962 Missal, Baronius Press edition) which took us right back to Genesis and the beginning. The beginning of Scripture but also The Beginning of Creation.
That was another reason the Novus Ordo was created to undermine the Book of Genesis by modernists
I've never believed in evolution.  It has almost nothing to do with being religious.  It just sounded like a bunch of bullshit to me, that inert chemicals came together in a soup and made life.  I don't care HOW MANY billions of years you have to boil the soup.  Shit like that just does not happen.

Stuff, left to its own devices, does not get more designed over the decades.  It either stays the same or deteriorates.  Only when intelligence is involved does stuff get designed and more complicated.  That is obvious to ANY honest observer with half a brain.

Moreover, there are fossils all over the world.  There should be several fossil records, at least, showing an animal whether bird, fish or reptile slowly mutating over millions of years.  It should be so simple to see that a child could see it was true.  Like one of those flicker books you make as a kid in the margins of your exercise book, with each fossil varying a little bit from the next.

What you in fact get is some scientist telling you a chip in a bone or a crack or a small lump means something or is the beginning of something.  That is total speculation on their part.  There is no way on God's green earth they can possibly know that.  They jump from one species to another on the basis of some blemish in a fossil.

I saw a BBC documentary recently about Dinosaurs who had feathers.  The artists impresson of them was of reptiles with feathers that did not seem to provide either warmth of flight.  They were purely decorative.  When they showed the fossil evidence for these "feathers" it was sketchy at best.  "These very faint lines are feathers".  Really?  I can't see a damned thing.  I think you're imagining what you want to see in that fossil.

I am surprised that people are taken in by evolution, surprised that they are taken in by Schrodingers Cat and surprised they buy lottery tickets failing to understand just how stupid that is.
indeed. its a load o rubbish. even when i was away from the faith i didn't buy for a second I'm from some squid.
its a real silly idea. granted they have managed to propell it with using it as a language to describe what they think is going on but theyere wring from the first.
nonsense all of it
Never thought I would be backing Dave Armstrong on something, but  I hope he does a good job. 

Has anyone thought to actually pray to St. Adam for help on restoring his necessary position? 

Does anyone know of any devotions to him?  I find him to be a particular area of fascination.

The only other living being who can claim to be the Son of God.  In Adams case: Made in Our Lord's case: Begotten.

He was probably the closest thing to what we would think of as Superman after his creation and then fell to a state that would still be considered physical perfection and beyond by our standards.

He's probably suffered more and has an intensely intimate relationship with Our Lord. 
[pre]And my lady said, "Within those rays
The first soul the first Power ever made
Gazes lovingly upon its Maker."

Just as a bough that bends its twig-tips down
With passing breezes and then lifts itself
By its own power to spring up again,

So I stood bowed with wonder while she spoke,
And then the wish to speak that burned in me
Raised up my self-assurance once again,

And I began, "O fruit, the only one
Produced already ripe, O ancient father
To whom each bride is daughter and daughter-in-law,

"Devoutly as I may I beg of you
To speak to me: you see my willingness,
And I — to hear you sooner — say no more."

An animal at times beneath its wrappings
So wriggles that it makes its feelings plain
Because the wraps respond to all its movements:

In the same way, that first soul made it clear
To me — right through its covering — just how
Elatedly it came to do my pleasure.

With that it breathed, "Without my being told
By you, I seize your wish more lucidly
Than you grasp anything you hold for certain,

"Because I see it in the truthful mirror
That fashions a reflection of all else
While nothing may reflect the mirror back.

"You wish to hear how long it is since God
Placed me in that lofty garden, where
This lady readied you for these high stairs,

"And how long my eyes gladdened at their sight,
And the real reason for His mighty anger,
And the language that I framed and then employed.

"Now not the tasting of the tree, my son,
Itself was reason for so long an exile,
But only the overreaching of the mark.

"The place from which your lady drew out Virgil,
There I longed for this company throughout
Four thousand three hundred and two sun-years,

"And while on earth I saw the sun return
Nine hundred thirty times to all the lights
Cast by the zodiac along its path.

"The tongue that I had spoken was extinct
Even before those people of Nimrod’s tried
Completing their unfinishable task,

"Because no work of reason has endured
Forever, due to human inclination
Which changes with the shifting of the skies.

"The fact that mortals speak is nature’s doing,
But whether you speak this or that, nature
Then leaves to you to follow your own bent.

"Before I went down to the pains of hell
The highest Good from whom comes all the joy
That clothes me was called 'I' upon the earth,

"And later was named ‘El’: and that must be,
For mortal ways are like the leaves on branches:
They fall away and then another forms.

"On the mountain rising highest from the sea
I lived in innocence and, later, guilt,
From the first hour to that which follows next

"(When the sun changes quarter) after the sixth."[/pre]

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)