Has the Church ever declared on anti-depressants and other such pills?
#21
why give a shit what others think lad?
so what? do your duty. they can do what they want. why let it bother you? what is it about going outside that causes fear? people? have u ever trained before int he martial arts? or have sought combat training or tactical fire arm training? I'm saying. perhaps the Best approach here is to train to be THE MASTER OF YOUR ENVIROMENT!! you are in control lad. you really are. you tell your body to do something it does. i dotn understand the frear here but training is one of the Best ways to handle fear. face your fear. you will see its a paper tiger. just an illusion.
have U been attacked or beat real bad or something? why do u think you have this fear? how old are u if u dont mind me askin?
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#22
Laetare, am I to understand right that you have pretty bad anxiety problems as far as not being able to leave the house/be around people?

Join the club.  That's been one of my main problems.  I was on klonopin for a while which helped take the edge off.  problem is, being a narcotic it's very addicting and you have to keep upping the dose for it to help you.

Anxiety is really only dealt with by facing it, which really, really sucks.  To this end, prayer helped me more than pills.  I carry a rosary and when I get nervous I just grip it really hard.  The psalms are great for anxiety.  For me anxiety has literally been a battle, against what, I dont' know.  But the psalms are great beacuse they're pretty much all about being up against insurmountable odds and looking to the Lord for help.  Especially psalm 24.  Abandon yourself to the Lord.

Psalm 24 Wrote:1 Unto the end. A psalm for David.

To thee, O Lord, have I lifted up my soul.

2 In thee, O my God, I put my trust; let me not be ashamed.

3 Neither let my enemies laugh at me: for none of them that wait on thee shall be confounded.

4 Let all them be confounded that act unjust things without cause.

Shew, O Lord, thy ways to me, and teach me thy paths.

5 Direct me in thy truth, and teach me; for thou art God, my Saviour; and on thee have I waited all the day long.

6 Remember, O Lord, thy bowels of compassion; and thy mercies that are from the beginning of the world.

7 The sins of my youth and my ignorances do not remember.

According to thy mercy remember thou me: for thy goodness' sake, O Lord.

8 The Lord is sweet and righteous: therefore he will give a law to sinners in the way.

9 He will guide the mild in judgment: he will teach the meek his ways.

10 All the ways of the Lord are mercy and truth, to them that seek after his covenant and his testimonies.

11 For thy name's sake, O Lord, thou wilt pardon my sin: for it is great.

12 Who is the man that feareth the Lord? He hath appointed him a law in the way he hath chosen.

13 His soul shall dwell in good things: and his seed shall inherit the land.

14 The Lord is a firmament to them that fear him: and his covenant shall be made manifest to them.

15 My eyes are ever towards the Lord: for he shall pluck my feet out of the snare.

16 Look thou upon me, and have mercy on me; for I am alone and poor.

17 The troubles of my heart are multiplied: deliver me from my necessities.

18 See my abjection and my labour: and forgive me all my sins.

19 Consider my enemies, for they are multiplied, *and have hated me with an unjust hatred.

20 Keep thou my soul, and deliver me: I shall not be ashamed, for I have hoped in thee.

21 The innocent and the upright have adhered to me: because I have waited on thee.

22 Deliver Israel, O God, from all his tribulations.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#23
(09-27-2011, 01:37 AM)Laetare Wrote: Friends,

I've been trying to identify an evil hole in my heart for a long time....

Brother, see my other posts in a recent similar thread. Also see:

http://books.google.com/books?id=4nQ9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=huguet+consoling+thoughts&hl=en&ei=aowrTqvIOcmftgfi25zXAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum#v=onepage&q&f=false
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#24
(09-27-2011, 04:17 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: why give a shit what others think lad?
so what? do your duty. they can do what they want. why let it bother you? what is it about going outside that causes fear? people? have u ever trained before int he martial arts? or have sought combat training or tactical fire arm training? I'm saying. perhaps the Best approach here is to train to be THE MASTER OF YOUR ENVIROMENT!! you are in control lad. you really are. you tell your body to do something it does. i dotn understand the frear here but training is one of the Best ways to handle fear. face your fear. you will see its a paper tiger. just an illusion.
have U been attacked or beat real bad or something? why do u think you have this fear? how old are u if u dont mind me askin?

I never was... I just remember being shunned and ignored and laughed at a lot as a child. Being an atheist only made this even more unbearable, because life was crappy AND totally pointless. Facing the fear does nothing - this is something that HURTS, I dunno what it is. It would be so weak, so atheistic, so secular to see a psychologist over this. I don't want to give in to this evil world and its medicines.

(09-27-2011, 04:37 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Laetare, am I to understand right that you have pretty bad anxiety problems as far as not being able to leave the house/be around people?

I left the house maybe 15 times from June 2007 to May 2010... and 10 of those times it was just being forced to go see relatives.

Quote:Join the club.  That's been one of my main problems.  I was on klonopin for a while which helped take the edge off.  problem is, being a narcotic it's very addicting and you have to keep upping the dose for it to help you.

Anxiety is really only dealt with by facing it, which really, really sucks.  To this end, prayer helped me more than pills.  I carry a rosary and when I get nervous I just grip it really hard.

I feel so embarrassed trying to pray the rosary in public. If you're afraid of ridicule and the opinions and stares of others, drawing even more attention to yourself is the last thing you want to do. Praying of any sort outside a church makes me feel proud, dreadful, awkward, etc.

Quote:The psalms are great for anxiety.  For me anxiety has literally been a battle, against what, I dont' know.  But the psalms are great beacuse they're pretty much all about being up against insurmountable odds and looking to the Lord for help.  Especially psalm 24.  Abandon yourself to the Lord.

That's an interesting choice, considering the fact that Advent is my favourite season and this Psalm opens it; why, I was just setting that introit to music a few days ago...

Things like becoming addicted are deeply worrying to me. There's no way to face this anxiety - it's a crushing, physical feeling of tightening, of restriction in the heart and lungs. It draws my shoulders down, and makes me so tired from having to face people. The Lord and His sacraments have done nothing to alleviate this, yet. I have faith that He will use this utterly broken oppression of mine for the good, but it's certainly been a long purification process, if that's what it is.
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#25
Why not look into some traditional martial arts training? It will help ubgretlybwith
confedece, I prove your health greatly, and improve your diet. It will help relive stress and ubeill be able to learn to trut Bose u twin wih and face percievwd riducle
we csn being this to pm if u like.
I csn hemp u search for a style and a school that maybe a good fi for your needs?
What do u think?
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#26
(09-27-2011, 01:37 AM)Laetare Wrote: .....

I often wonder if pills change the personality, the character, the humanity that God has given us. Isn't it an insult to God to say "thanks for this body, but I'd rather it was another way so I'll augment and correct your errors"? This is how I feel about such pills and corrective medicine. How restricting, how suffocating. What does Holy Church say, from its eagle-eye view, not my personal interpretation of life?
##
[b]A lot of people would be dead if they didn't take medications. Taken far enough, your reasoning would make medical care sinful - but the Bible praises physicians: see Ecclesiasticus (AKA Ben Sira) 38. Were the healing worked by Jesus sinful ? They can be said to have changed "the personality, the character, the humanity that God" gave people - no ? :) [/b]
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#27
Kendo looks very lovely, since the entire body is covered and you look anonymous. There's something about being exposed, open, seen, or known by people that is a big reason for staying inside. No one can see you when the door's closed and the curtains are drawn round. Kendo is slow, deliberate, patient, and very tactical. There's something lovely about it... but I'd be far too embarrassed about it. Also, I'm sure there are some weird pagan spiritual practices attached to meditating beforehand.

To mix Kendo with Catholic spirituality of strengthening myself through Christ, now that would be glorious. Have a rosary wrapped around your blade, LOL.

Quote:A lot of people would be dead if they didn't take medications. Taken far enough, your reasoning would make medical care sinful - but the Bible praises physicians: see Ecclesiasticus (AKA Ben Sira) 38. Were the healing worked by Jesus sinful ? They can be said to have changed "the personality, the character, the humanity that God" gave people - no ?

Hey, our Lord can change the character of anyone's body if it's for the glory of God. Putting pills in me to change the chemicals which my soul acts through in the body sounds very iffy, by comparison. :(
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#28
Latare, keep the rosary in your pocket.  When you are nervous, put your hand in your pocket and grab hold of the rosary.  That's what I do, at least.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#29
Kendo doesn't use blades. iado sure does. in any event if you are drawn to kendo you should take it up. most Japanese cultural centres will have kendo offered. Ive trained in iado before not kendo. but Ive seen enough kendo to know what I'm taking about. once u gain strength and confidence from kendo if you persue it. iado would be something that maybe up your ally. using katanas. and is very very very disciplined.
Ive also trained din Nie Chi mattil arts of china. Chen takjiquan (original tai chi style. it is a combat form nothing like you would know or have seen as tai chi) but judging form you few posts i think the jap route is more suited for you.
you should give it a shot. it may cost regarding equipment but most clubs will have soem sets untill u can afford your own. do yoruself a favour and check it out. dont give up. u can do it. i know you you can!!
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#30
(09-27-2011, 01:37 AM)Laetare Wrote: Going to Mass of any kind is pure mental torture for him, because it is outside, beyond safety - he cannot even trust his best friends not to glare at him and laugh at him in their hearts. He cannot become a saint without joy, peace, and doing the will of God.

I often wonder if pills change the personality, the character, the humanity that God has given us. Isn't it an insult to God to say "thanks for this body, but I'd rather it was another way so I'll augment and correct your errors"? This is how I feel about such pills and corrective medicine. How restricting, how suffocating. What does Holy Church say, from its eagle-eye view, not my personal interpretation of life?

Getting the proper medication might be part of what God wants someone to do in order to more easily go to Mass!

It is not showing ingratitude to God to work to make the sick body well!  God permits illness, but  not because He intends us to do nothing about it.! We are meant to fight illness because God wants us to be well.   The mind is spiritual, but it is associated with a physical brain, which can be ill.  God gives us various means to fight illness, but these change over time as medicine progresses. 

Do you refuse to take aspirin? I hope not!  Yet even aspirin can change your mood a bit.   It doesn't change your humanity, and neither do other drugs.  Yes they have a far greater effect, that temporarily affects external character but they are fighting a far greater illness - because of a sick brain (physical) your mind is seeing a distorted reality.  Do you think God wants that? Is that a part of your character?

Yes drugs may sometimes have an awful impact.  But consider an analogy with a surgeon. When a surgeon operates, sometimes he tragically makes a mistake and kills a patient.  Should surgery be prohibited?  Or will people continue to have surgery because the risk of death is greater without it?   The doctor and patient don't choose surgery as the first thing, but rather work on life style, etc, but they may resort to it as a last measure.  The same thing is true with drugs for mental issues. Working on the spiritual life comes first and foremost  and always, and exercise and good health come next.  But I think that drugs, properly administered over time, can sometimes prevent terrible things that are caused by something in the brain, not just in the soul. 

It is true, though, that the brain is so closely related with the mind (spiritual), that much fiddling with the brain chemistry would not be wise. But if  your brain/mind is so disturbed that
you can't live your life (and your spiritual life) anything like normally, and if your priest and doctor agree, it might be time for extreme measures, praying as you go.

People these days rush to get drugs, and totally ignore the spiritual life.   That is not the thing to do  But don't throw out any of the means that God gives us to get well.


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