Rick Perry Dancing with the Rabbis........
(10-07-2011, 01:37 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 01:38 AM)Norbert Wrote: What bugs me is the complete non sequitur of suddenly saying I wanted to put jews or mexicans or whatever in ghettos, when what I actually meant is that they can accept a certain basic level of American and Christian (not necessarily in that order) values, or get out.

No, it wasn't a non sequitur...and God only knows what Alaric was rambling on about.  You were hinting that those Jews are not assimilated into American mainstream culture...which is false...the video itself proves otherwise.  They obviously want to live peacefully amongst their fellow Americans, and they do, as we see all over the US.  So, either you support their having assimilated into our culture (they are not newcomers to America...they've been here for generations...they speak English, enjoy some of our national pastimes, etc.), living peacefully amongst us, contributing to the greater good (by being productive citizens...which they are), or you support their being segregated from us so that we don't have to be neighborly.  You can't have it both ways...mainly because it just doesn't work that way...it's not logical.  So then the question naturally follows: do you wish for them to be assimilated (and accepted/tolerated...and we in turn extend a gesture of good will where we can) or do you wish for them to be segregated from us?

I don't particularly think either is going to happen.  BTW, rabbis dancing with rick perry isn't a sign that they are assimilated...it's just a sign that they know perry will do what they want.  BTW, not all orthodox jews speak english, all of them view themselves as jewish first, American second (if at all, it's a tenant of their faith), and many of them don't "live among us" at all because they themselves choose separate communities.  This isn't about ghettos, this is about the obvious political statement that perry's dance is sending.  Like I said, I wouldn't approve of him putting on a sombrero and shaking maracas with Mexicans either.
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A bit over the top. It's not he dances with then ey control him. It's more rathe in politics if u want a certain sgmant or your fonstruents roncote for u, u need to go kiss babys, dance a jig, or sit throgh some God awfuk Chinese opera, dance the horrah, sit throgh bingo, break a pinaa, wct ect ect
sure all those groups want something but it's not as overt as "come to our bingo qe control YOU" or come dance a jig ww contol YOU or een his.
Hasids don't have that much control in isreal. Heredi have more but the ones u need o worry about ibur stuck on control r rhe wasps who control isreal and have fought and will fight for isrea. They are ashkanazi, secular and dedicated or in isreal called wasps (white ashkanazi secular paratroopers). Many won't even sport a kippa look like u and me, wct
many many I'd then despise the hasids as much as u if not more. As hasids won't fght for isrea and r exempt from the mil. Yet hey will live there and reap the rewards. Heredi will fight. Anyway dancing with hasids isn't what ibshoukdnof be really looking at.
I'm no expert. I've never sportted psyos. But I've batted them
u wanna do a thing to really drie a Hasidic violent
sip
bat his psyos.
Tip of the day
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(10-07-2011, 04:28 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: A bit over the top. It's not he dances with then ey control him. It's more rathe in politics if u want a certain sgmant or your fonstruents roncote for u, u need to go kiss babys, dance a jig, or sit throgh some God awfuk Chinese opera, dance the horrah, sit throgh bingo, break a pinaa, wct ect ect
sure all those groups want something but it's not as overt as "come to our bingo qe control YOU" or come dance a jig ww contol YOU or een his.
Hasids don't have that much control in isreal. Heredi have more but the ones u need o worry about ibur stuck on control r rhe wasps who control isreal and have fought and will fight for isrea. They are ashkanazi, secular and dedicated or in isreal called wasps (white ashkanazi secular paratroopers). Many won't even sport a kippa look like u and me, wct
many many I'd then despise the hasids as much as u if not more. As hasids won't fght for isrea and r exempt from the mil. Yet hey will live there and reap the rewards. Heredi will fight. Anyway dancing with hasids isn't what ibshoukdnof be really looking at.
I'm no expert. I've never sportted psyos. But I've batted them
u wanna do a thing to really drie a Hasidic violent
sip
bat his psyos.
Tip of the day

:laughing:  Still, I have a hard time imagining Perry's outreach to Mexicans or Arabs consisting of dancing with them.
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(10-07-2011, 04:13 PM)Norbert Wrote: ...(if at all, it's a tenant of their faith)...

This has nothing to do with the subject, but the above misuse of words is a pet peeve of mine. The word you meant is "tenet". I am a tenant of the apartment building I live in. Religious principles are tenets.
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(10-07-2011, 02:32 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: And yet, during the vast majority of Christian history, Jews were segregrated from Christians in ghettos.

Yes...due to popular hatred.  Popular hatred needs to be abolished...not coddled.

This is laughable coming from you!  A woman so full of "popular hatred" you advocate nuking the country of Iran and have stated on this very forum that you want to push the button yourself.  Bigot, ignorant ...  Pfft..  ::)
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(10-07-2011, 05:07 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 04:13 PM)Norbert Wrote: ...(if at all, it's a tenant of their faith)...

This has nothing to do with the subject, but the above misuse of words is a pet peeve of mine. The word you meant is "tenet". I am a tenant of the apartment building I live in. Religious principles are tenets.

Mea culpa.  For some reason I do that all the time, even though I know better.
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(10-07-2011, 03:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: What I contend here is that this phenomenon was not due solely to popular hatred (like the infamous pogroms) but to a deeper cause rooted in the innate distrust the Christian feels towards the Jew. During the glory days of Christendom, the Jews weren't segregated and discriminated just because of the ignorance or the prejudice of bad Christians unless you want to label the majority of the faithful of those centuries as ignorants and bigots. Rather, it was something common to all men of all ranks, either secular or ecclesiastical, up there to the Popes themselves that enacted laws in their own realms to deal with the Judaic problem in those harsh terms.

When the enemies of the Church say that the roots of the "Holocaust" are in Christianity itself they're exaggerating but, in some respects, they're not that far off.

My question, then, is if you and others concede that the Church was simply wrong in condoning this social behaviour? And, if so, isn't it curious to you that it was the heretics and the atheists those who acted accordingly to the Gospel? In your opinion, that is.

The Church never condoned that behavior because it was deemed right or good or true...the Church just was powerless to do anything about it.  Yeah...I think that some folks have a deep seated hatred of Jews...and not because the Jews killed Christ, or the Jews caused them any personal slight...they just hate...most likely because they were brought up that way (it gets passed on quite easily in some households)...or because of envy...that same feeling that is driving the communist-minded folks in the Occupy Wall Street protests.  Sucks to know that Christians aren't impeccable...we can choose sin over virtue.

I don't think the roots of the Holocaust are in Christianity at all.  I think those roots lie at the very heart of sin...primarily of envy and hatred.  I may personally find some cultural traits of Jews irritating...but to envy and hate and want to cause them harm is wrong...not Christian at all.
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(10-07-2011, 04:13 PM)Norbert Wrote: I don't particularly think either is going to happen.  BTW, rabbis dancing with rick perry isn't a sign that they are assimilated...it's just a sign that they know perry will do what they want.  BTW, not all orthodox jews speak english, all of them view themselves as jewish first, American second (if at all, it's a tenant of their faith), and many of them don't "live among us" at all because they themselves choose separate communities.  This isn't about ghettos, this is about the obvious political statement that perry's dance is sending.  Like I said, I wouldn't approve of him putting on a sombrero and shaking maracas with Mexicans either.

Do they pay their taxes and are they productive citizens?  Yeah, they do and they are...so I could give a flying flip if they wanna hang in cliques and have inbred kids.

As for Perry and his gestures of friendship...I think it would be fine...maybe a good thing...for him to shake maracas and dance with Mexicans.  Mexico is, after all, our neighbor to the south.  Big friggin whoop if he wants to put on a sombrero and eat a tamale.  Now, if he decided to advocate for a Mexican takeover of Texas...he'd be run out on a rail...but that ain't the same thing as bein' friendly.
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(10-07-2011, 05:47 PM)Hawaii Five-0 Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 02:32 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: And yet, during the vast majority of Christian history, Jews were segregrated from Christians in ghettos.

Yes...due to popular hatred.  Popular hatred needs to be abolished...not coddled.

This is laughable coming from you!  A woman so full of "popular hatred" you advocate nuking the country of Iran and have stated on this very forum that you want to push the button yourself.  Bigot, ignorant ...  Pfft..  ::)

You wanna address the argument or you just wanna insult me (which automatically means you lose)?
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(10-07-2011, 07:37 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(10-07-2011, 03:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: What I contend here is that this phenomenon was not due solely to popular hatred (like the infamous pogroms) but to a deeper cause rooted in the innate distrust the Christian feels towards the Jew. During the glory days of Christendom, the Jews weren't segregated and discriminated just because of the ignorance or the prejudice of bad Christians unless you want to label the majority of the faithful of those centuries as ignorants and bigots. Rather, it was something common to all men of all ranks, either secular or ecclesiastical, up there to the Popes themselves that enacted laws in their own realms to deal with the Judaic problem in those harsh terms.

When the enemies of the Church say that the roots of the "Holocaust" are in Christianity itself they're exaggerating but, in some respects, they're not that far off.

My question, then, is if you and others concede that the Church was simply wrong in condoning this social behaviour? And, if so, isn't it curious to you that it was the heretics and the atheists those who acted accordingly to the Gospel? In your opinion, that is.

The Church never condoned that behavior because it was deemed right or good or true...the Church just was powerless to do anything about it.  Yeah...I think that some folks have a deep seated hatred of Jews...and not because the Jews killed Christ, or the Jews caused them any personal slight...they just hate...most likely because they were brought up that way (it gets passed on quite easily in some households)...or because of envy...that same feeling that is driving the communist-minded folks in the Occupy Wall Street protests.  Sucks to know that Christians aren't impeccable...we can choose sin over virtue.

I don't think the roots of the Holocaust are in Christianity at all.  I think those roots lie at the very heart of sin...primarily of envy and hatred.  I may personally find some cultural traits of Jews irritating...but to envy and hate and want to cause them harm is wrong...not Christian at all.

This is simply not true.

The Jews were kept in ghettoes or expelled from Catholic countries with the blessing of the Church. The popes themselves kept the Jews under check in the Papal States.

Social discrimination of the Jews is as old as Christianity itself, it has nothing to do with superficial feelings of "envy."
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