Rick Perry Dancing with the Rabbis........
#41
Of course not. Never have I claimed we should. But I wouldn't dance with any prods either
would u?
Reply
#42
(10-04-2011, 01:07 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: St. John Chrysostom certainly thought so.

Quote:God hates the Jews, and on Judgment Day He will say to those who sympathize with them., “Depart from Me, for you have had intercourse with My murderers!”

I know we are not suppose to support the Jewish "religion" for "As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake" (Romans 11:28).

But this quote by St. John Chrysostom kind of contradicts the Bible in 3 spots, doesn't it?

Romans 11:22-36
Quote:22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.  23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.  24 For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?  25 For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in.  26 And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.  27 And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins.  28 As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers.  29 For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.  30 For as you also in times past did not believe God, but now have obtained mercy, through their unbelief;  31 So these also now have not believed, for your mercy, that they also may obtain mercy.  32 For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he may have mercy on all.  33 O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways!  34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor?  35 Or who hath first given to him, and recompense shall be made him?  36 For of him, and by him, and in him, are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen.

Malachias 4:5-6
Quote:5 Behold I will send you Elias the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.  6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers: lest I come, and strike the earth with anathema.

Apocalypse 11:3 & 7-8
Quote:3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.  7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.  8 And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified.

The Douay-Rheims Bible recognizes the two witnesses in Apocalypse 11 as Elias and Henoch.  To me these 3 parts of the Bible are saying that near the end God will send His two witnesses for the conversion of the Jews (those that are real Jews) to the Faith of Jesus Christ. 

So the quote by St. John Chrysostom above doesn't really jive with these 3 parts of the Bible, does it?  Unless St. John Chrysostom is just talking about the "religion" of the Jews?  ???   
Reply
#43
(10-04-2011, 02:58 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: But I wouldn't dance with any prods either
would u?

Depends on how good looking she is! :laughing:
Reply
#44
(10-04-2011, 02:50 PM)K3vinhood Wrote: Should we dance around a table with a bunch of rabbi's?

Not that Perry is Catholic, but that's what this thread is about.

I don't think any saint would have advocated dancing around with a bunch of Rabbi's.

...except JPII.......... :pazzo:
Reply
#45
[quote='mikemac' pid='890120' dateline='1317773576']
So the quote by St. John Chrysostom above doesn't really jive with these 3 parts of the Bible, does it?  Unless St. John Chrysostom is just talking about the "religion" of the Jews?  ???   
[/quote]

It does not contradict the Bible.

Chrysostom doesn't say the Jews will not be converted, nor does he say no ethnic Jew will be saved.

He is telling us specifically to stay away from the Jew who has not been converted.

[quote='St. John Chrysostom Homilies XVIII + XIX on Romans (Chapter 11)']
Ver. 2-5. Do you not know, he says, what the Scripture says of Elias? How he (so most; manuscripts Sav. who) makes intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed Your prophets, and dug down Your altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what says the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

What he means is nearly this. God has not cast off His people. For had He done so, He would have admitted none of them. But if He did admit some, He has not cast them off. Still it is said, if He had not cast off, He would have admitted all.
...

Some may say. It has a great deal to do with the present subject. For he shows here that it is the worthy that God uses to save even if the promise be made to the whole nation. And this he pointed out above when he said, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved. And, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we should have become as Sodoma. Romans 9:27-29 And he points it out from this passage also. Wherefore he proceeds to say, Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Observe that each word maintains its own rank, showing at once God's grace, and the obedient temper of them that receive salvation. For by saying election, he showed the approval of them, but by saying grace, he showed the gift of God.
...

Ver. 25. For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise your own conceits.

Meaning by mystery here, that which is unknown and unutterable, and has much of wonder and much of what one should not expect about it. As in another passage too he says, Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51 What then is the mystery?

That blindness in part has happened unto Israel. Here again he levels a blow at the Jew, while seeming to take down the Gentile. But his meaning is nearly this, and he had said it before, that the unbelief is not universal, but only in part. As when he says, But if any has caused grief, he has not grieved me, but in part 2 Corinthians 2:5: And, so here too he says what he had said above, God has not cast off His people whom He foreknew Romans 11:2: and again, What then? Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid Romans 11:11: This then he says here also; that it is not the whole people that is pulled up, but many have already believed, and more are likely to believe. Then as he had promised a great thing, he adduces the prophet in evidence, speaking as follows. Now it is not for the fact of a blindness having happened that he quotes the passage (for every one could see that), but that they shall believe and be saved, he brings Isaiah to witness, who cries aloud and says,

Ver. 26. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. Isaiah 59:20

Then to give the mark that fixes its sense to salvation, to prevent any one from drawing it aside and attaching it to times gone by, he says,

Ver. 27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Not when they are circumcised, not when they sacrifice, not when they do the other deeds of the Law, but when they attain to the forgiveness of sins. If then this has been promised, but has never yet happened in their case, nor have they ever enjoyed the remission of sins by baptism, certainly it will come to pass. Hence he proceeds...
Reply
#46
The defense rests, your honor.
:pray:
Reply
#47
Not at all. Again do u wear shoe laces? Hae u ver worn shoe laces? A saint a doctor of the church no less has said we shouldn't. Yet u have what gives?
Yet how does st crosostom even touch some prod govinors behavour? Again if u want to run across the Street at the sight  of Jews no one is stopping u. U can even scream "unclean unclean!!" and shake your fist too. and I think u should Every time u see a Jew run like hell the oposite direction
go for  it
bring your kids up doing that too.
Sure why not
sip
But one saints mutterings is not the law of the fsith. One has to wonder if we r not permitted any contact with Jews bow thy wil be converted mmmm
but anyway keep runnin
sip
Reply
#48
(10-05-2011, 12:31 AM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 08:12 PM)mikemac Wrote: So the quote by St. John Chrysostom above doesn't really jive with these 3 parts of the Bible, does it?  Unless St. John Chrysostom is just talking about the "religion" of the Jews?  ???   

It does not contradict the Bible.

Chrysostom doesn't say the Jews will not be converted, nor does he say no ethnic Jew will be saved.

He is telling us specifically to stay away from the Jew who has not been converted.

Interesting K3vinhood.  But DK has something here.  How are Jews suppose to be converted if we are to stay away from them?  And that's what I was trying to say; don't support the nation of Israel and stay clear of their "religion" but not individual Jews.  VII seems to have given up on any mission of conversion for the Jews.  Which is contradictory to what the Bible says, to take His Word to all peoples and nations.  This VII idea reminds me of what St. John Chrysostom is saying but to me both seem contradictory to the Bible.  Again, how are you suppose to convert a Jew if we are suppose to stay clear of them?

DK is also right by referencing the law of the faith over what a saint may have written.  For another example, some of the early Fathers of the Church wrongfully believed in dispensationalism and they were eventually corrected.  Dispensationalism was revived in the nineteenth-century by the Protestant evangelical John Nelson Darby.  This is where some Protestant sects get the crazy notion of a pre-tribulation rapture and a future thousand year reign of Christ on earth.  It is clearly wrong because that would mean that Jesus Christ would have to come three times.  No matter how much good the saints and even the Fathers of the Church have written the "law of the faith" and the Bible trumps them.

Possibly DK had plans of converting them when he was batting their payos.  :)     
Reply
#49
(10-05-2011, 07:40 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: Not at all. Again do u wear shoe laces? Hae u ver worn shoe laces? A saint a doctor of the church no less has said we shouldn't. Yet u have what gives?
Yet how does st crosostom even touch some prod govinors behavour? Again if u want to run across the Street at the sight  of Jews no one is stopping u. U can even scream "unclean unclean!!" and shake your fist too. and I think u should Every time u see a Jew run like hell the oposite direction
go for  it
bring your kids up doing that too.
Sure why not
sip
But one saints mutterings is not the law of the fsith. One has to wonder if we r not permitted any contact with Jews bow thy wil be converted mmmm
but anyway keep runnin
sip
Who's running?
Quite the contrary, let's convert them if possible.
But don't start defending their false beliefs out of "charity".
We have to tolerate, but not accept.
Ok, so I might be able to bend backwards for them to try to convert them. But sure as hell I ain't bending forward to them like many of you are doing.
There is only one True Faith. Everything else is (as you would know DK), bullshit.

Reply
#50
I have never defended their false  beliefs
I would never do such a thing
sip
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)