work and conscience
#21
(10-03-2011, 08:49 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-03-2011, 08:12 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: Anyways... my question was not about Halloween, but whether it's wrong to still do something you're told if it contradicts your convictions. (up to a point of course).

Your conscience is your guide, but it has to be informed (because demons can speak to you to). Do what you think is right. If you think witches will be bad for the kiddos, then go with it. You're not obliged to support that, even if it isn't sinful. I think high fructose corn syrup is bad. I think many things could fall in this category.

but doesn't the Church say that witchcraft is dangerous? in Scripture it says not to have anything to do with evil... even if it's just a game. I mean, some kids use the ouija board as games. What if we are simply desensitized to Halloween??
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#22
(10-04-2011, 11:22 AM)little_flower10 Wrote: but doesn't the Church say that witchcraft is dangerous? in Scripture it says not to have anything to do with evil... even if it's just a game. I mean, some kids use the ouija board as games. What if we are simply desensitized to Halloween??

The danger in a ouija board is that you are actually calling out to spirits, even if you don't mean to be serious about it.  Halloween witches might be called "witches" but they are so far removed from actual witchcraft that I don't think it really matters.
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#23
(10-04-2011, 11:22 AM)little_flower10 Wrote:
(10-03-2011, 08:49 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-03-2011, 08:12 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: Anyways... my question was not about Halloween, but whether it's wrong to still do something you're told if it contradicts your convictions. (up to a point of course).

Your conscience is your guide, but it has to be informed (because demons can speak to you to). Do what you think is right. If you think witches will be bad for the kiddos, then go with it. You're not obliged to support that, even if it isn't sinful. I think high fructose corn syrup is bad. I think many things could fall in this category.

but doesn't the Church say that witchcraft is dangerous? in Scripture it says not to have anything to do with evil... even if it's just a game. I mean, some kids use the ouija board as games. What if we are simply desensitized to Halloween??

All Saints Day on Nov 1 celebrates all the souls in Heaven.
All Souls Day on Nov 2 remembers all the souls in Purgatory. 
Halloween, the eve of All Saints Day, on Oct 31 is a reminder of what is happening to the souls in Hell.  Thus zombies, witches, devils, and demons are all quite appropriate for Halloween.  People dressing up as angels or saints really isn't. 
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#24
(10-04-2011, 11:22 AM)little_flower10 Wrote: but doesn't the Church say that witchcraft is dangerous? in Scripture it says not to have anything to do with evil... even if it's just a game. I mean, some kids use the ouija board as games. What if we are simply desensitized to Halloween??

Yes, witches are bad. The caricatures we see on Halloween can go anywhere from silly to demonic. You have to judge that. I for my part have nothing to do with the demonic part. Men carved demons into the sides of churches, so having witches around is not in itself a bad thing, but I think .000001% intend anything cautionary about it. I'm not going to make the call for you. There are people who use the holiday as a day of demon worship, and many others ignorant fun. The roots are the day are that the Celts believed the dead mingled amongst the living. It was Christianized, and now it is liturgically a preparation for All Saints Day. I see nothing wrong though with some of the secular aspects of the day. I would prefer that the more dark side of the holiday was gone, but I am not sure that having a picture like this up is evil in itself. The opportunity hasn't come up in my life yet. I'm usually very frank with people, and I'd just talk to them straight up about it.

[Image: 030.gif]
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#25
(10-04-2011, 01:29 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-04-2011, 11:22 AM)little_flower10 Wrote: but doesn't the Church say that witchcraft is dangerous? in Scripture it says not to have anything to do with evil... even if it's just a game. I mean, some kids use the ouija board as games. What if we are simply desensitized to Halloween??

Yes, witches are bad. The caricatures we see on Halloween can go anywhere from silly to demonic. You have to judge that. I for my part have nothing to do with the demonic part. Men carved demons into the sides of churches, so having witches around is not in itself a bad thing, but I think .000001% intend anything cautionary about it. I'm not going to make the call for you. There are people who use the holiday as a day of demon worship, and many others ignorant fun. The roots are the day in which the Celts believed the dead mingled amongst the living. It was Christianized, and now it is liturgically a preparation for All Saints Day. I see nothing wrong though with some of the secular aspects of the day. I would prefer that the more dark side of the holiday was gone, but I am not sure that having a picture like up this is evil in itself. The opportunity hasn't come up in my life yet. I'm usually very frank with people, and I'd just talk to them straight up about it.

[Image: 030.gif]

The problem with that picture is that she's a Puritan witch... look at the hat and shoes!  Heretic!  ;)
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#26
I see what you are saying... I just don't understand how it can be good to dress up as a witch, etc.. I actually have dressed up as a witch for a couple years on halloween when I was a kid. I realize it's all "ignorant fun" as you said, but can't it be a way that the enemy is infiltrating into children's lives? Almost everything demonic starts as "ignorant fun". I'm not at all saying all those kids will get into the occult. But maybe it does sort of affect our society and how it views witchcraft.

I have also heard about how October 31st is a reminder of hell, but it should help people to realize the reality of hell and turn to God, rather than dress up as demons and servants of the devil... that just seems the wrong approach to me.
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#27
(10-04-2011, 02:24 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: I see what you are saying... I just don't understand how it can be good to dress up as a witch, etc.. I actually have dressed up as a witch for a couple years on halloween when I was a kid. I realize it's all "ignorant fun" as you said, but can't it be a way that the enemy is infiltrating into children's lives? Almost everything demonic starts as "ignorant fun". I'm not at all saying all those kids will get into the occult. But maybe it does sort of affect our society and how it views witchcraft.

I have also heard about how October 31st is a reminder of hell, but it should help people to realize the reality of hell and turn to God, rather than dress up as demons and servants of the devil... that just seems the wrong approach to me.

I think you're right. In the context our society it all looks bad. If our society was Catholic, it may not look so bad to have everyone going around playing the part of the dead walking amongst us. I imagine the witchcraft aspect would be gone.
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#28
From the Fish Eaters page:

Quote:31 October and 1 and 2 November are called, colloquially (not officially), "Hallowtide" or the "Days of the Dead" because on these days we pray for or remember those who've left this world.

The days of the dead center around All Saints' Day (also known as All Hallows') on November 1, when we celebrate all the Saints in Heaven. On the day after All Hallows', we remember the saved souls who are in Purgatory being cleansed of the temporal effects of their sins before they can enter Heaven. The day that comes before All Hallows', though, is one on which we unofficially remember the damned and the reality of Hell. The schema, then, for the Days of the Dead looks like this:



31 October:
Hallowe'en: unofficially recalls the souls of the damned. Practices center around the reality of Hell and how to avoid it.

1 November:
All Saints': set aside to officially honor the Church Triumphant. Practices center around recalling our great Saints, including those whose names are unknown to us and, so, are not canonized

2 November:
All Souls': set aside officially to pray for the Church Suffering (the souls in Purgatory). Practices center around praying for the souls in Purgatory, especially our loved ones

The earliest form of All Saints' (or "All Hallows'") was first celebrated in the 300s, but originally took place on 13 May, as it still does in some Eastern Churches. The Feast first commemorated only the martyrs, but came to include all of the Saints by 741. It was transferred to 1 November in 844 when Pope Gregory III consecrated a chapel in St. Peter's Basilica to All Saints (so much for the theory that the day was fixed on 1 November because of a bunch of Irish pagans had harvest festivals at that time).

All Souls' has its origins in A.D. 1048 when the Bishop of Cluny decreed that the Benedictines of Cluny pray for the souls in Purgatory on this day. The practice spread until Pope Sylvester II recommended it for the entire Latin Church.

The Vigil of, or evening before, All Hallows' ("Hallows' Eve," or "Hallowe'en") came, in Irish popular piety, to be a day of remembering the dead who are neither in Purgatory or Heaven, but are damned, and these customs spread to many parts of the world. Thus we have the popular focus of Hallowe'en as the reality of Hell, hence its scary character and focus on evil and how to avoid it, the sad fate of the souls of the damned, etc. 1

How, or even whether, to celebrate Hallowe'en is a controversial topic in traditional circles. One hears too often that "Hallowe'en is a pagan holiday" -- an impossibility because "Hallowe'en," as said, means "All Hallows' Evening" which is as Catholic a holiday as one can get. Some say that the holiday actually stems from Samhain, a pagan Celtic celebration, or is Satanic, but this isn't true, either, any more than Christmas "stems from" the Druids' Yule, though popular customs that predated the Church may be involved in our celebrations (it is rather amusing that October 31 is also "Reformation Day" in Protestant circles -- the day to recall Luther's having nailed his 95 Theses to Wittenberg's cathedral door -- but Protestants who reject "Hallowe'en" because pagans used to do things on October 31 don't object to commemorating that event on this day).

Some traditional Catholics, objecting to the definite secularization of the holiday and to the myth that the entire thing is "pagan" to begin with, refuse to celebrate it in any way at all, etc. Other traditional Catholics celebrate it without qualm, though keeping it Catholic and staying far away from some of the ugliness that surrounds the day in the secular world. However one decides to spend the day, it is hoped that the facts are kept straight, and that Catholics refrain from judging other Catholics who decide to celebrate differently.

For those who do want to celebrate Hallowe'en, customs of this day are a mixture of Catholic popular devotions, and French, Irish, and English customs all mixed together. From the French we get the custom of dressing up, which originated during the time of the Black Death when artistic renderings of the dead known as the "Danse Macabre," were popular. These "Dances of Death" were also acted out by people who dressed as the dead. Later, these practices were moved to Hallowe'en when the Irish and French began to intermarry in America.

From the Irish come the carved Jack-o-lanterns, which were originally carved turnips. The legend surrounding the Jack-o-Lantern is this:

    There once was an old drunken trickster named Jack, a man known so much for his miserly ways that he was known as "Stingy Jack," He loved making mischief on everyone -- even his own family, even the Devil himself! One day, he tricked Satan into climbing up an apple tree -- but then carved Crosses on the trunk so the Devil couldn't get back down. He bargained with the Evil One, saying he would remove the Crosses only if the Devil would promise not to take his soul to Hell; to this, the Devil agreed.

    After Jack died, after many years filled with vice, he went up to the Pearly Gates -- but was told by St. Peter that he was too miserable a creature to see the Face of Almighty God. But when he went to the Gates of Hell, he was reminded that he couldn't enter there, either! So, he was doomed to spend his eternity roaming the earth. The only good thing that happened to him was that the Devil threw him an ember from the burning pits to light his way, an ember he carried inside a hollowed-out, carved turnip. 

From the English Catholics we get begging from door to door, the earlier and more pure form of "trick-or-treating." Children would go about begging their neighbors for a "Soul Cake," for which they would say a prayer for those neighbors' dead. Instead of knocking on a door and saying the threatening, "Trick-or-treat" (or the ugly "Trick-or-treat, smell my feet, give me something good to eat"), children would say either:

    A Soul Cake, a Soul Cake,
    have mercy on all Christian souls for a soul cake!

or

    Soul, soul, an apple or two,
    If you haven't an apple, a pear will do,
    One for Peter, two for Paul,
    Three for the Man Who made us all.

Another Hallowe'en custom is the old Celtic "bobbing for apples." To do this, fill a large tub two thirds full with water and float apples in it. Children take turns trying to pick up one of the floating apples using only their mouths (hands are not allowed and must be held or tied behind the back!) -- very tricky to do! The first to do so wins a prize (some say he will be the first one to marry someday). You can make the game more fun by carving an initial into the bottom of each apple, letting that initial indicate the name of the person each apple-bobber will marry, and/or using different colored apples with different assigned meanings or prizes. (You can play a dry version of this game by tying the stems of the apples to strings and suspending them. If you do this, carve any initials at the tops of the apples. Of course, all of this sort of thing is a parlor game and should never be taken seriously or cross the line into divination!).

...and tell scary stories! If you want the perfect poems to relate to your children on this day, see Little Orphant Annie, The Raven, The Stolen Child, and the Wreck of the Hesperus. And here are those poems and some stories for you to download in Microsoft Word .doc format:

After teaching your children about the frightening realities of Hell and the fate of the damned, reassure them by telling them that the Evil One has already been conquered! Satan has no real power over those who are in Christ, and mocking him and his minions is a way of demonstrating this; teach your children how to call on the power of Christ and His Church to protect themselves from their snares. Warn them that magic (the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine) is real, that there is no such thing as "white magic," that playing with the occult -- whether by divination, necromancy, the casting of spells, playing with Ouija boards, etc. -- is an invitation to demons to respond, and that it is from demons that magic gets any power it has. Remember St. Michael to them, teach them about the power of sacramentals and prayers that ward off evil when piously used (the Sign of the Cross, Holy Water, blessed salt, the Crucifix, the St. Benedict Medal, St. Anthony's Brief, etc.), teach them to call on the Holy Name of Jesus when they are afraid, etc.

And please pray to all the Saints that they might intercede and bring pagans and witches to Christ so they might know the peace that comes from knowing that God loves them so much that He allowed Himself to take on a human nature, to suffer, and to die for them...


http://www.fisheaters.com/customstimeaft...t12aa.html
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