JPII fiasco and St. Christopher
#11
Boy Oh Boy, you've reshuffled my memory. This was a fiasco par excellence. Talk about the masses in revolt. When St. Christopher disappeared and lots of priests said get rid of your St. Christopher medals, it was nearly open revolt. You see, and this is missing in both the Trads and the Novus Ordo, the commoner, the peasant, the poor, cling to these things. Their faith is intuitive, it's emotional, it's certainly not intellectual. The Council Fathers were all intellectuals and they were blind to this and when they thought of them it was in condescension'. You've heard it all as the Vernacular is necessary because the people don't get the Latin, or don't change the words the people will never understand.I have a theory not confirmed yet, but what the phrase in the words which start the Third Secret "In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved",s the dogma of faith in marvels, miracles, and the invisible. Look to the Nicean Creed we believe in an invisible world, but today that is just a notion, and not taken seriously. Fatima, St. Christopher, House of Loreto, anything supernatural is kicked to the curb. As Fr. Dominic Crossen says and I paraphrase, even if Christ didn't rise from the dead in a physical sense I'd still be a Christian. Not me I'd join the Mafia and have all the brauds, booze, and do-re-mi I could steal.

tim

fixed my bad typing and spelling, mea culpa
Reply
#12
When I worked at the church supply store, St. Christopher was still the biggest seller; statues, medals, you name it. St. Philomena was popular too. Soon the Church will come around. St. Catherine of Alexandria was off for a long time. Just recently they put her back on. I'm waiting for St. Barbara to make a comeback too.

What the intellectuals don't understand, is that the stories of Christopher, Barbara, and Catherine speak to the hearts of the masses. We don't care if their stories were embellished. It's the message that makes us love them. There is nothing more striking than Ophero the Giant carrying people over the rushing river... and finally being weighed down by the tiny tot on his shoulders. As he sinks into the river the baby dips his hand in the water and baptizes him, renaming him Christ Opher.. One who Carried Christ. I named my son Christopher, and my grandson is also Christopher. Funny thing, their middle name is "James" and St. James shares St. Chris's feast, July 25.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I bet you that within ten years Christopher's feast will be put back on the calendar. However, if he regains his old seat, and shares it with St. James the Greater, he'll always take a back seat in the liturgy. Always.

Reply
#13
Exactly SCG ! Christ taught us with little stories and everybody got it. He could have out St. Paul'd, St. Paul any day. He could have made the learned Doctors look simple minded, He didn't. Some may not like this but the Church has swung to over intellectualization, and drifted from the trust and faith in the Saviour. It's as if we no longer see the forrest for the trees.

tim
Reply
#14
(10-21-2011, 11:58 AM)timoose Wrote: Exactly SCG ! Christ taught us with little stories and everybody got it. He could have out St. Paul'd, St. Paul any day. He could have made the learned Doctors look simple minded, He didn't. Some may not like this but the Church has swung to over intellectualization, and drifted from the trust and faith in the Saviour. It's as if we no longer see the forrest for the trees.

tim

I couldn't agree with you more, Tim.
Reply
#15
(10-21-2011, 10:03 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Just because a saint is removed from the calendar does not mean they aren't a saint anymore.  There are many, many saints not on the calendar. 

Saint Christopher is still a saint!

I was told by my mother that he was not considered a saint anymore. Just goes to show the confusion that could be spread in the times before the internet.

When I made this thread, I was thinking about the idea of St. Christopher losing his title as a saint and how it might apply to the JPII problem. However, after further investigation, I found out that you and many others were right, Someone 1776. Oh, well. So much for the loophole I was looking for.

Thanks for your help, everyone!

Back to the drawing board...
Reply
#16
Quite frankly it seems as if there is practically no faith left amongst those that are in positions of leadership in the Church. Outside trad chapels the supernatural and the miraculous have been almost completely expunged. Timoose you are right, the faith of many is a simple, intuitive faith and not based on being an intellectual.(not that there is no place for the intellectual in the Church mind you) That's is more the type of faith I personally have. There isn't an argument for or against God's existence that would sway me either way. When I first heard Gregorian Chant it was one of the main reasons for becoming a Catholic at all. Maybe the Church is in such ruins because even people that are not believers are not swayed by a Church that seems to have no faith in anything anymore except for man and secular government organizations like the UN. What the folks at the top did to the Church was to destroy it, to gut it of anything supernatural and thus to rob it of having any meaning for people at all that pointed to God, to Redemption in Christ. If Christ was just a man, none of the saints where real and miracles are just stories for folls then Catholicism isn't worth giving your life to because it's a lie. Sadly this is what many in the Church seem to teach today either explicitly as in the case of open heretics in theology departments and seminaries or implicitly by not condemmning them. The simple believers hold up the Church. What has happened is shameful.
Reply
#17
(10-21-2011, 11:58 AM)timoose Wrote: Exactly SCG ! Christ taught us with little stories and everybody got it. He could have out St. Paul'd, St. Paul any day. He could have made the learned Doctors look simple minded, He didn't. Some may not like this but the Church has swung to over intellectualization, and drifted from the trust and faith in the Saviour. It's as if we no longer see the forrest for the trees.

tim

Yes and no. I don't know what those guys were doing 50 years ago. Maybe a bit of over intellectualization in the egghead sense of the term. And for nefarious purposes. The funny thing is that as I have come back and understood real Catholicism I have become intellectual about it. I don't need to and of course the simple are always going to be God's favorites. The funnier thing is as I have had such a thirst to study and really learn my faith, I have simultaneously become child-like, or at least more child-like in my faith as I have satisfied myself by getting the formalities, study, out of the way. Hope this makes sense.

And St. Christopher seems to be a conspiracy now that I am thinking about it. My dad had a magnet of St. Christopher on his '61 Chevrolet Impala and his '67 Chrysler Newport. It did not make it to his '73 Coupe De Ville, because the dashboard was no longer metal. No, not saying the conspiracy came out of Detroit, but it is interesting that everytime we got in the car we saw something that reminded us we were Catholics. If you multiply that by the millions of families that had something similar you understand why that Saint had to be dealt with.

Reply
#18
I'll expand a little. Studying the Faith is not what I'm knocking. Because of the problems many that were not catechized properly dove in and found it for themselves. But, but Look around we have tons of folks in the blogosphere that are all Theologians. We also have autodidacts.  The absence of trust in the clerics has caused a sort of protestantization of the Faith. This is the vehicle used by the mistaken and enemies of the faith to corrupt what people believe. And for the few a way to know the faith. The problem is it's mostly for the bad. For me, because I know we are under siege, and I'm not telling you what to do, I stick to this bit from the Magnificat at Vespers every night; "Quia respexit humilitatem ancillae suae" . There is no way I can be a handmaid but servant will work nicely.

tim

Reply
#19
The defense is that he isn't de-sainted, as St Philomena isn't, but that they are just taken off the Universal Calendar. These saints are honored on local calendars. This is true, except everybody ran with the ball and said he isn't a saint. It's one of those Vatican II slight of hand deals, where you wonder how they did that. You know, like the Mass of All Time is forbidden.

(10-22-2011, 12:04 PM)timoose Wrote: I'll expand a little. Studying the Faith is not what I'm knocking. Because of the problems many that were not catechized properly dove in and found it for themselves. But, but Look around we have tons of folks in the blogosphere that are all Theologians. We also have autodidacts.  The absence of trust in the clerics has caused a sort of protestantization of the Faith. This is the vehicle used by the mistaken and enemies of the faith to corrupt what people believe. And for the few a way to know the faith. The problem is it's mostly for the bad. For me, because I know we are under siege, and I'm not telling you what to do, I stick to this bit from the Magnificat at Vespers every night; "Quia respexit humilitatem ancillae suae" . There is no way I can be a handmaid but servant will work nicely.
tim

We still need to be obedient. St John of the Cross makes it quite plain that even if we are holier than someone else we are to be obedient to them if we should. We should only resist the novelities, which we are not obliged to partake in, or the orders attached to partaking in them.
Reply
#20
(10-21-2011, 10:04 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: Yes and no. I don't know what those guys were doing 50 years ago. Maybe a bit of over intellectualization in the egghead sense of the term. And for nefarious purposes. The funny thing is that as I have come back and understood real Catholicism I have become intellectual about it. I don't need to and of course the simple are always going to be God's favorites. The funnier thing is as I have had such a thirst to study and really learn my faith, I have simultaneously become child-like, or at least more child-like in my faith as I have satisfied myself by getting the formalities, study, out of the way. Hope this makes sense.

That sounds like my experience.  The more I studied the more I realized how ignorant I am. 

I suspect that I often come across as an arrogant intellectual in my posts, but I really do know how small I am before God.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)