UK's Nick Griffin on Islam and Zionism
#31
To the best of my recollection, this is what I wrote...

Quote:I think we should also keep in mind the essentially harmonious relationship that existed between the Jews of Austria-Hungary and their Habsburg & German sovereigns in the 19th and early 20th centuries. During the First World War, German and Austro-Hungarian Jews, the most assimilated and patriotic in Europe, overwhelmingly fought and died for Kaisers Wilhelm II, Franz Josef, and Karl. I have a photo of Emperor Karl and Empress Zita being blessed by a rabbi in Budapest. What all this suggests to me is that it is possible for Jews to live in a Catholic monarchy as loyal subjects without undermining the Christian character of society or the state sacrificing its Catholic principles. I do concede, however, that in the aftermath of Bolshevism, Zionism, World War II, the attacks on Pius XII, and the "Holocaust Industry," it might not be possible for such a relationship to ever exist again. But I think that's unfortunate. Again, the pre-1918 German and Austrian Jewish experience has no counterpart in Islam; it is impossible to imagine Muslims flocking to the defense of a Catholic monarchy as German and Austrian Jews did during World War I.
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#32
 
 
I haven't the time or desire to respond to Nick Griffin's lengthy drivel point for point. I'll just restate what I have said before since neither he or royalcello have addressed it, and that point undercuts his entire verbose essay.
 
If you want to look at the Arab immigration problem in Europe truthfully, you have to hold the European politicians who allowed it to happen, and their puppet masters, not poor immigrants, responsible.
 
Nick Griffin is no different than American rednecks who blame poor Mexicans for the immigration problem in the US. Given, he has a somewhat better vocabulary, but the thinking is identical.
 
I have news for you people, the poor Mexicans who come to the U.S. and wash dishes for $2.00/hr. don't have the political power to change immigration laws. And neither do the Arab immigrants in Europe. To view these people who are only trying to make a better life for themselves and their families, (and who can blame them?) as the cause of this problem is simple-mindedness of the worst kind and I assure anyone who adheres to this kind of thinking that they will fail, guaranteed. 
 
Further, the ideology of these immigrants is a non-issue, or I should say, it didn't have to be an issue. Certainly Islam is threatening to Christians. But it wouldn't be a problem if Muslims weren't welcomed in droves into our lands by our alleged representatives in government. And neither would there be anywhere near the amount of hostility which does exist among some Muslims towards the "West" if the West hadn't been hijacked by Zionists and used as club to beat them over the head with.
 
And I will be the first to point out that this is in no way a Judaic exclusive. This war against Western Civilization could never have been such a great success without a whole lot of cooperation from many, many European descended "Christians," and in my book, they hold a position far lower than any "Jew."
 
 
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#33
 
 
This is the most convoluted thing I've read in a very long time.
 
Nick Griffin Wrote:"Even if every single bombing attack on Western targets, 9/11, Paris, Bali, Madrid, assorted embassies and 7/7 included, was carried out by Mossad agents, it wouldn’t advance our cause one iota to say so."
 
 
Really? If the Mossad did do these things, then who should we say did them? Muslims, apparently?
 
 
 
Nick Griffin Wrote:This is not good politics, and can only be indulged in by those who have spent so much time talking and emailing only with their fellow ‘extremists’ that they have lost touch with reality as the rest of the world sees it – or by individuals to whom those same ‘extremists’ are not potential allies with whom to work to break out of the nationalist ghetto, but a meal ticket.
 
 
Who cares about "reality" as the world sees it? I don't cater to false "realities." I wake people up to reality as it truly exists. If this guy's ideology was grounded in something a little more substantial than "good politics", like the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for instance, maybe he would be able to understand this concept.

 
 
 
Nick Griffin Wrote:It’s bad enough in the United States, but it is positively suicidal in Europe, Britain included, because the vast majority of the population which is most likely to be receptive to our nationalist message is already wary (to use what is probably a gross understatement) of Muslims. To even hint of making common cause with Islam – or put ourselves in a position when opponents can suggest to the masses that this is the case – is political insanity.
 
Well, if the people of Europe are wary of Muslims, then their distrust should be redirected where it belongs--with the treacherous European government representatives and their handlers who opened the floodgates for the Muslims that pour into their lands.
 
 
 
 


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#34
Quote: Well, if the people of Europe are wary of Muslims, then their distrust should be redirected where it belongs--with the treacherous European government representatives and their handlers who opened the floodgates for the Muslims that pour into their lands.

Good post Maurice,

 

I have a question on the above statement. I think that Royal is fully aware of the elites on both sides of the Atlantic that have sold us down their river. You seem to suggest that the masses fight back. Correct me if I am misreading you. The reality of fighting back is the elites have special accommodations for dissenters in place. In America, we have Club Gitmo and with Halibutron getting a special 5 year contract, we will have more like it on our native soil. As our soldiers have shown in Iraq by executing innocent women and children, I doubt they would shed a tear if they had to do the same to native Murkan "terrorists." Another option for dissent is hiding out in a bunker like Randy Weaver and his family. I wonder where his family is now? We have seen what happens to dissenters in Europe. Look at the nice accommodations that Gemar Rudolph and Zundle were given. Besides praying, what can a traditional Catholic realistically do against Caesar and his legions.

 

 

Andy

 

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#35
Maurice, Griffin has just as much contempt for the West's white "Christian" rulers as you do. He might even agree with your analysis.

Griffin is criticising those on the "far right" who are so obsessed with Jews and Zionism that they are inclined to make common cause with Muslims against Jews, and pointing out that anti-Muslim rhetoric (including opposition to the white "Christian" politicians who are responsible for the Muslim problem) will resonate with many more ordinary white people in Britain than anti-Jewish rhetoric will. He is a politician trying to articulate a successful political strategy. That does not necessarily mean that he would disagree with anything you've pointed out.
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#36
It is really rather derogatory to believe that if you oppose the illegal immigration of millions that you are an "American redneck".
 
Yes, I can understand why people that are poor would want to come to a place that offers free money in the form of welfare and where one can get jobs and basically live in one's own culture. I might do the same thing if I was in desperate straits. Yes, you cannot blame them for the weakness and immorality of the American people that would allow a foreign nation to send their own poor people to another country to relieve themselves of having to take care of them. Yes, you cannot blame the illegals for every problem that is here in America. They can become a convenient scapegoat. Yes, the Hispanic supremacists and demagogues are using the the illegals for their own ends. Yes, just by stopping illegal immigration will not solve any or all of the real problems in America.
 
However, do not canonize these people. Just because they are nominally Catholic does not mean anything. I do not know if you live in Southern California like I do, but if you do you would know that the supposed Catholicism of the illegals is of the same variety of Catholicism as the American Catholics. The vast majority of the illegals are here for the great American materialistic dream and that is all. If you had seen the 500,000 people demonstrate in LA and the sea of Mexican flags you would understand the situation. If you had heard one of the demonstrators say that "This is wonderful to see us come together as one nation and one RACE."
 
Yes, this problem could and quite possibly will devolve into a racial battle. This is not a war between the materialistic American and the devout and faithful Mexican people. This is a battle between two pagan peoples for the share of the economic pie. One nation has abandoned God and is basically dying out due to abortion, contraception and lack of belief in God, the other is reproducing but with mostly a Catholic faith that is mere custom and with a belief and, in some sense rightly so, that this land is rightly theirs. Yes, this can very easily and, I believe it will, degenerate into a very ugly and immoral war.
 
So I ask do not demonize all that oppose the illegals as "rednecks" and canonize those "poor Mexicans" as saints. The only way the just solution will occur is if both peoples return to God and His Holy Church. Now, if these illegals were made up of mostly the Cristeros then I would welcome them here with open arms because they would evangelize pagan America and help us, but they are not the Cristeros, they are just a poorer version of us.
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#37
Good post little,
 
End the welfare handouts and the free medical care, then the illegal immigration issue will stop. It is as simple as that. The government is subsidizing these people with welfare. The elites in this country want a "race" war because then they can enact more draconian laws and make the military presence even more overt. One day we may see our government call on the "Chinese" army to "restore" the race war that they themselves caused. I fear for what is coming in this nation because we as a nation deserve whatever we get. Their is only so long that God will stay his hand and answer the cries of the millions of aborted babies that scream to heaven for vengeance. Those babies that have been taken from him and are in Limbo and not in heaven enjoying God.
 
Andy
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#38
 


royalcello Wrote:Griffin is denouncing those on the "far right" who are so obssessed with Jews and Zionism that they are inclined to make common cause with Muslims against Jews ...

 
I for one don't see any "common cause" between Muslims and Christians, but I do acknowledge our common circumstances--that Zionists seek the destruction of us both. To acknowledge this FACT does not constitute obsession with "Jews" and Zionism. It constitutes recognition of reality. We have not chosen to be in a common situation with Muslims. The Zionists have created that situation.
 
Zionists have paired Muslims and "Christians" off against each other hoping that they will destroy each other so that they can collect the spoils. Waking "Christians" and Muslims up to this fact and attempting to avoid an unnecessary catastrophe does not constitute a common spiritual or ideological cause between Muslims and Christians.
 
You and Mr Griffin seem to think that Muslims and Christians should proceed to tear each other apart in a match that Zionists arranged for their own benefit. I am saying that this war is not our war and that I will not be a "righteous" Noahide soldier and destroy my people or Muslims with whom no problem existed until that curse that calls itself "Israel" came into the picture.
 
Contrary to what you state, Griffin does not agree with me. I'm pointing out that the primary threat is the Zionists and corrupt politicians that they control who opened the gates to the Muslims. Griffin is stating that the ideology of poor Muslims who immigrate to Europe to make a better life for themselves should be identified as the primary threat, apparently, even though he knows that they're not. 
 
He prescribes more politics as the antidote to the problems caused by politics.
 
No thanks.
 
 
royalcello Wrote:... and pointing out that anti-Muslim rhetoric (including opposition to the white "Christian" politicians who are responsible for the Muslim problem) will resonate with many more ordinary white people in Britain than anti-Jewish rhetoric will.

 
How do you figure that addressing a problem that Muslims did not create with anti-Muslim rhetoric can accomplish anything worthwhile? This notion is absurd. The blame should be placed squarely upon those responsible.
 
royalcello Wrote:He is a politician trying to articulate a successful political strategy. That does not necessarily mean that he would disagree with anything you've pointed out.

 
How is replacing one wishy washy politician with another going to accomplish anything meaningful? Enough of this Pat Buchanan style "wink, wink" crap. How have we ever benefitted from it? I pray that Griffin's party never accomplishes any of it's political goals until they start stating the truth and holding people responsible for their actions instead of cowardly and dishonestly sacrificing a more politically expedient scapegoat.
 
 
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#39
littlehammer Wrote: 
So I ask do not demonize all that oppose the illegals as "rednecks" and canonize those "poor Mexicans" as saints.

 
I have not characterized everyone who opposes illegal immigrants as rednecks. I firmly oppose illegal immigration, and there's nothing in what I have written that can be taken to mean anything contrary. I've appealed to the fact that most rednecks blame poor immigrants alone for the immigration problem without holding the politicians who created the problem responsible. 
 
And any wholesale canonization of poor Mexicans as saints exists only in your mind.
 
Lay off the straw men.
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#40
I am sorry then Maurice Pinay if I have misunderstood this quote of yours:
 
Quote:Nick Griffin is no different than American rednecks who blame poor Mexicans for the immigration problem in the US.
 
It is just a fact that those that oppose illegal immigration are characterized as racists and that the "poor immigrants" are virtually canonized so it is not a straw man argument. And you are right that the politicos need to be dealt with but in the end the enemy is "us".
 
I enjoy your points of view and thanks for letting me know that I misquoted you.
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