The crisis since Vatican II, What are the numbers?
#21
Crusader, thats the kind of thing which makes me hold my tongue. There is way more to this than some liberal progressives throwing monkey wrenches into the works. This is a planned all out assault by the adversary from multiple fronts.

tim
Reply
#22
In the year 1864, Lucifer together with a large number of demons will be unloosed from hell; they will put an end to faith little by little, even in those dedicated to GOD. They will blind them in such a way, that, unless they are blessed with a special grace, these people will take on the spirit of these angels of hell; several religious institutions will lose all faith and will lose many souls.  -The Secret of La Salette

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/appariti...r00008.htm
Reply
#23
(11-30-2011, 08:48 AM)Stubborn Wrote: Can you post a link when you get around to it?

I thinks it's this one: http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/MC/dm.mp3
Reply
#24
Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church since Vatican II by Kenneth C. Jones
You can also use the yearly Catholic Almanac now by Our Sunday Visitor.

Reply
#25
(11-30-2011, 02:35 AM)SPB Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:14 AM)Aragon Wrote: I think the decline is caused more by the cultural revolution the Western World underwent rather than Vatican II specifically.

Nope. Not only is this not true, even if it were it would still result in the same thing for Vatican II. Why? Because Vatican II claimed to be moving with the times and updating the Church for the modern man - something that was a massive failure. Either way you look at it, the crisis in faith since Vatican II was caused by Vatican II.


Then howcome every Protestant denomination also became very liberal after the cultural revolution? They didn't have a council...
Reply
#26
(12-02-2011, 08:22 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:35 AM)SPB Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:14 AM)Aragon Wrote: I think the decline is caused more by the cultural revolution the Western World underwent rather than Vatican II specifically.

Nope. Not only is this not true, even if it were it would still result in the same thing for Vatican II. Why? Because Vatican II claimed to be moving with the times and updating the Church for the modern man - something that was a massive failure. Either way you look at it, the crisis in faith since Vatican II was caused by Vatican II.


Then howcome every Protestant denomination also became very liberal after the cultural revolution? They didn't have a council...

Protestants do not have the faith. The faith of the Catholic Church on earth prior to V2 was strong enough to defend against the extreme (not all) liberalism - after V2, the loss of the faith dictated that the defenses wither away - allowing and embracing the cultural revolution and all things modern.

Reply
#27
Only four ordinations in Paris for 2011!
Reply
#28
(12-02-2011, 08:54 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(12-02-2011, 08:22 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:35 AM)SPB Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:14 AM)Aragon Wrote: I think the decline is caused more by the cultural revolution the Western World underwent rather than Vatican II specifically.

Nope. Not only is this not true, even if it were it would still result in the same thing for Vatican II. Why? Because Vatican II claimed to be moving with the times and updating the Church for the modern man - something that was a massive failure. Either way you look at it, the crisis in faith since Vatican II was caused by Vatican II.


Then howcome every Protestant denomination also became very liberal after the cultural revolution? They didn't have a council...

Protestants do not have the faith. The faith of the Catholic Church on earth prior to V2 was strong enough to defend against the extreme (not all) liberalism - after V2, the loss of the faith dictated that the defenses wither away - allowing and embracing the cultural revolution and all things modern.

I think your missing my point... I meant, the Protestants also suffered from extreme liberalism during the cultural revolution, so my point was that it wasn't 'Vatican II' but rather the cultural revolution that caused all the troubles we have today. What Vatican II intended is far from what the Church got in the 70s...
Reply
#29
(11-30-2011, 08:48 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 08:21 AM)Scotus Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 08:07 AM)Stubborn Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:35 AM)SPB Wrote:
(11-30-2011, 02:14 AM)Aragon Wrote: I think the decline is caused more by the cultural revolution the Western World underwent rather than Vatican II specifically.

Nope. Not only is this not true, even if it were it would still result in the same thing for Vatican II. Why? Because Vatican II claimed to be moving with the times and updating the Church for the modern man - something that was a massive failure. Either way you look at it, the crisis in faith since Vatican II was caused by Vatican II.

Sad but true SPB.

Additionally, if someone comes across some statistics for the increase in psychiatric care that followed V2, please post some info on that.
I remember quite a few pre-V2 Catholics, including some nuns, who pretty much, literally lost their minds along with their faith in the V2  revolution. Add that to the list of things we can thank V2 for. :(

Fr Chad Ripperger has said that pre-Vatican II there were very few Catholics amongst the patients of mental hospitals. After Vatican II, it appears that Catholics are the largest religious group to be found in such institutions. I think the quote is from his talks on Psychology on his website.

Absolutely the way I remember it. I vaguely remember something on the news in the 70s about the increase of Catholics in mental hospitals. Prior to V2, Catholics used their priest as their shrink because it was sinful to disclose deeply personal information to anyone else and because the advice of your priest was always deemed spiritually and mentally reliable and  overall helpful to ones spiritual and mental well being.

Can you post a link when you get around to it?

Interesting..I remember reading about Jung feeling very bitter and disturbed about the fact he had no Catholic patients...
Reply
#30
I finally got the book in my hands and it is really depressing to look at. (Index of Leading Catholic Indicators, The Church Since Vatican II by Kenneth C. Jones)
It is filled with bar graphs, charts, and statistics which show the growth and decline of many aspects of Church life and practice.
On almost every bar graph in the book there is a steady growth until the late 60's to early 70's and from there it falls off dramatically.
There are several that rise again after the decline, but most were still falling up to the year 2002. (the book was published in 2003)

After looking over the results, it became clearer to me that I should focus more on the solution than the source of the problem.
The solution being a return to tradition, of course.
But it does help to find the cause. The problem is convincing those who do not recognize a crisis in the Church.

After studying this book, I don't know how anyone with a clear mind could deny the crisis.
A copy of it should be placed on the desk every bishop and priest.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)