Nov 12 Bp Williamson column
#21
Everyone is missing the point. Bishop W says clearly that the man should not make the woman the center of his life, but the woman SHOULD make the man the center of her life. So if making someone the center of your life means to worship them to the point where you neglect your duties in life, why is he saying the woman should do it?
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#22
(11-12-2011, 06:08 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: Everyone is missing the point. Bishop W says clearly that the man should not make the woman the center of his life, but the woman SHOULD make the man the center of her life. So if making someone the center of your life means to worship them to the point where you neglect your duties in life, why is he saying the woman should do it?

That's a rhetorical question, right?
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#23
(11-12-2011, 06:19 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 06:08 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: Everyone is missing the point. Bishop W says clearly that the man should not make the woman the center of his life, but the woman SHOULD make the man the center of her life. So if making someone the center of your life means to worship them to the point where you neglect your duties in life, why is he saying the woman should do it?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

No. I want to see a cohesive response from those who are acting like this piece of confused writing is actually something insightful and reasonable.
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#24
(11-12-2011, 06:44 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 06:19 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 06:08 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: Everyone is missing the point. Bishop W says clearly that the man should not make the woman the center of his life, but the woman SHOULD make the man the center of her life. So if making someone the center of your life means to worship them to the point where you neglect your duties in life, why is he saying the woman should do it?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

No. I want to see a cohesive response from those who are acting like this piece of confused writing is actually something insightful and reasonable.

So it is a rhetorical question. 
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#25
Let's call it an exercise in "not being Bishop Williamson sheeple."  :LOL:
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#26
(11-12-2011, 06:00 PM)timoose Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 03:28 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 01:14 PM)timoose Wrote: Not only do you guys have on your secret "men" glasses but the hearing aids too. This reminds me of a conversation I had with a cop friend (undercover narcotics) while we were pounding a few at the end of the bar, concerning abortion always being premeditated murder. At the other end was his wife and the barmaid and four of their girl friends. We knowing it was a sensitive conversation were keeping our voices low, but with the female special sensory equipment and their foggy feminist thinking started wailing, and being near tears demanded we stop speaking because it isn't true.

tim

Tim, because of what I have put in bold, I am confused to your position here. Do you agree with us with the secret "men" glasses? Or are we, in your opinion, blinded by something here?

The part which you have bolded is my attempt to kid on the square. My intention was to use it to explain that we do not have such things but because we are men and if we have been formed correctly, we see it exactly as you laid it out. In short I agree completely. Further I like you think Bishop Williamson is referring to our labor and not our love life. It is a man's job to love his wife and family that he does his best to provide for them. The woman's job is to run the house and raise the children for love of her husband and children. To me this all comes from the English word love which has too many meanings.  It can be used too many ways and then it is not reconcilable with itself. I hope this clears it up.

tim 

That's what I thought you meant. Thanks.
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#27
(11-12-2011, 01:24 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 12:34 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 12:12 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: How is it compatible with St Paul's teaching for men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church to say that men should love their work more than their wives?

Where did he say that? I must be reading with my special "male view" glasses on my nose again.

"As for the firmness, in all times and places where human nature has not been twisted out of all recognition, the man’s life revolves around his work while the woman’s life revolves around her family, starting with her man. If the man makes the woman the centre of his life, it is as though two tomato plants were clinging together – both will finish in the mud"

1 Corinthians 11:3  
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


Ephesians 5:25  
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:


The head of the woman is the man, but the head of the man is not the woman, but Christ.  The man must love Christ by doing the duties of his state, which is doing God's will.  The unique duty of his state is to provide for his wife and family, that is to do his work for that purpose. His work is more central, not because he loves it more than his wife, but because he must spend more time and attention on it.  Remember the primary purpose for marriage is not the union between man and wife, but the propagation of children within the family.  What is central in one sense is not central in another; the man does love his wife the most, but must focus his time on his work, which is how he shows his love.
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#28
(11-12-2011, 05:35 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 03:26 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: As I read this, I believe he is talking about the work assigned man and woman within the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. In that vein, if the man makes the woman the center of his life he can hardly be expected to care, protect, and provide for her and the children.

By working hard to provide for his wife and children, he is making them the center of his life. This is what is meant by St. Paul's words. For Bishop Williamson to set up a dichotomy between those different things is nonsense. In way does man not make his wife and family the center of life, and then put all his effort into providing for them? It's a contradiction. Typical of B Williamson's confused and disordered thinking.

Quote:This analogy the bishop provides reminds me of sterile marriages due to contraception, or the fruit which comes out of it, which is, of course, so-called "homosexual marriage".

Irrelevant. Contraceptive and homosexual marriages are the result of people making THEMSELVES the center of their lives, rather than the person they're married to. (Or having a real marriage.)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the dichotomy in this article. I agree that by working the man is making his family the center of his life. It's a both and thing rather than an either or, IMHO.

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#29
(11-12-2011, 07:05 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 05:35 PM)Iolanthe Wrote:
(11-12-2011, 03:26 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: As I read this, I believe he is talking about the work assigned man and woman within the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. In that vein, if the man makes the woman the center of his life he can hardly be expected to care, protect, and provide for her and the children.

By working hard to provide for his wife and children, he is making them the center of his life. This is what is meant by St. Paul's words. For Bishop Williamson to set up a dichotomy between those different things is nonsense. In way does man not make his wife and family the center of life, and then put all his effort into providing for them? It's a contradiction. Typical of B Williamson's confused and disordered thinking.

Quote:This analogy the bishop provides reminds me of sterile marriages due to contraception, or the fruit which comes out of it, which is, of course, so-called "homosexual marriage".

Irrelevant. Contraceptive and homosexual marriages are the result of people making THEMSELVES the center of their lives, rather than the person they're married to. (Or having a real marriage.)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the dichotomy in this article. I agree that by working the man is making his family the center of his life. It's a both and thing rather than an either or, IMHO.

Because in the article Bishop Williamson says NOT to do this. I agree with what you're saying, but the article tells the man to make his work the center INSTEAD of the woman. I said it's the same thing.

Am I the only one who read it?
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#30
She makes a good point.
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