Spousal Contraception Qs
#31
Even if the spouse's use of contraception is not occult, the non-contracepting spouse still approaches the procreative act completely open to conception, which is their moral obligation. The moral theology manuals say that spouses can continue to have marital relations even if they have been injured and having children is functionally challenged for some reason. In such cases, they remain open to children from the act, even if they both realize it would be miraculous if they conceived. The non-contacepting spouse is approaching the act open to children ... and children may actually result in the case where the contraception failed.
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#32
But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.
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#33
(11-16-2011, 02:20 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: It's not a mortal sin because you can't always control what your spouse is doing.  If my wife wanted to committ the sin of gluttony (silly example), I could not buy food to prevent this, or I could buy food despite her gluttony.  My duty to provide for her greatly outweighs my duty to avoid helping her committ that sin. 

I'm sure we can come up with other examples, but the basic principles are that though it's not at all ideal and should be discussed and addressed, the husband is not sinning if the wife is taking the pill against his wishes, and the husband then withholding sex, given the importance of sex within marriage, is a severe recourse that is not required and can be damaging to the marriage.

I haven't found a traditional source to quote on this yet, but I'm looking.

By knowingly having sex with a spouse who is contracepting you are explicitly condoning, enabling and participating in that sin.  You would be an accessory to that sin on a few different levels.  Contraceptive sex is far more damaging to a marriage than no sex.  And no one is obliged to fulfill the marriage debt in a way that would make them sin.
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#34
Quote:But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.

I agree that they would not be obliged to.
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#35
(11-16-2011, 03:06 PM)Ray M Facere Wrote:
Quote:But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.

I agree that they would not be obliged to.

If anything, they're obliged not to.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#36
(11-16-2011, 03:11 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: If anything, they're obliged not to.

I don't think his/her complicity in the act would require this, if they didn't share the intention and made known their objections.
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#37
(11-16-2011, 03:11 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:06 PM)Ray M Facere Wrote:
Quote:But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.

I agree that they would not be obliged to.

If anything, they're obliged not to.

You seem very determined about this.. But there are clergy and moral theologians who disagree with you.
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#38
(11-16-2011, 03:13 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:11 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:06 PM)Ray M Facere Wrote:
Quote:But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.

I agree that they would not be obliged to.

If anything, they're obliged not to.

You seem very determined about this.. But there are clergy and moral theologians who disagree with you.

That's the nature of the beast. We're all bound to be disagreed with in the climate of the Great Apostasy.

I can certainly see why Mith wants to be on the safe side but with passionate urges, my argument can also be considered the safe side.
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#39
(11-16-2011, 03:13 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:11 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: If anything, they're obliged not to.

I don't think his/her complicity in the act would require this, if they didn't share the intention and made known their objections.

Can you re-phrase that?  I'm not sure what you're saying.  Are you saying that as long as a non-contracepting spouse tells their contracepting spouse that they object to having contraceptive sex they can then have contraceptive sex without being involved in the sin?  I don't think that's what you're saying but that's what I'm getting out of what you just wrote.  Thanks.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#40
(11-16-2011, 03:13 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:11 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(11-16-2011, 03:06 PM)Ray M Facere Wrote:
Quote:But are they obliged to? I would think not. I think the non-contracepting spouse would not be required to pay the marriage debt to a contracepting spouse.

I agree that they would not be obliged to.

If anything, they're obliged not to.

You seem very determined about this.. But there are clergy and moral theologians who disagree with you.

And I'd love to know the argument.  The only argument that I can see so far is one that denies one or more of the following:

That contraception is a sin
That sexual intimacy makes two into one flesh
That the marriage debt is owed at all costs
That there is no such thing as being an accessory to sin

That "clergy and moral theologians" disagree with anything is hardly a statement that holds much water these days.  I don't mean to be contrarian SCG- but I feel very strongly about this as you can tell and I am really having a hard time reconciling what these "clergy and moral theologians" are saying with Catholic teaching.  Maybe you can help me by providing some specifics?
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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