Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others?
(12-10-2011, 11:41 AM)James02 Wrote: You are close to the Molinist view, but you ignore the main point.  For even a Molinist must preach predestination.  It is in scripture.  At the heart of everyone who denies predestination is the denial of Original Sin.

Here is where you will run afoul of Scripture and the Church.  You were born in a Western Country and were baptized.  Abu the naked savage, with a few million of his kin is running around without the ability to be saved.  Why did God put you in a Western country and Abu out in the plains of darkest Africa?  Now it is true Abu can be saved.  And the Bible gives us a wonderful example of it with the Ethiopian eunuch.  But lets face it, this is probably extremely rare.

And there you have it.  Unearned, strictly by God's sovereign plan, you are born into "Christendom" and Abu is lost.  He is lost because he has Original Sin. 

So, I accept that without baptism, he has no claim to heaven.  I get that, I understand that, I don't have an issue with that.  And if limbo is actually open to the 'righteous' unbaptized, I could live with that.  However, if God sends him to the deepest, fireist parts of hell, when he had no choice of where he was born, never heard the Gospel, was given no chance to respond to it, and lived as righteous a life as he knew how, then that is unjust.

My parish priest once told me that God doesn't plan people per se, he accepts the people that humans procreate.  I had asked him about all the Jews and others who died in the holocaust, and the countless generations of people who will now never come to exist, does that mean there are people who are supposed to exist but now don't?  And the reverse, what about the child of a rapist, produced by the act of rape.  If there were no original sin, the conception likely never would have happened, does that mean there are people who exist who were never supposed to.  He said to me, no, God sees every potential person and accepts that they exist.  There are no people who exist but shouldn't, and there are no potential people who don't exist but should.  So it is not a case of God putting someone somewhere because they are predestined to not be elect (this is why I said seMAAAAAANtics!  If God predestines someone to not be elect, then he has predestined them to hell and this is double predestination.  To throw in,'oh, well they chose to sin themselves so are guilty' so it's not the same is a cop out and sophistry.  It's double predestination).  God accepts the actions of man and people are generated where the acts of conception take place and by whom they take place.  But, at the same time, God could send someone to preach the gospel to a given group, and sometimes he doesn't.  You've got me on that one.

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Re: Why do some people receive the gift of faith and not others? - by Melkite - 12-10-2011, 12:15 PM

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