Pope Benedict XVI's astronomer: the Catholic Church welcomes aliens
#11
The laws of causality, plausibility, non-contradiction, and identity do not put the notion out of reach. Look at the size of our Galaxy alone - 100 000 light years from side to side. One light year is about 6 000 billion/6 trillion miles, you know? Even if we were to reach the speed of light (a comical idea given our current technology), it would take 30 000 years, without delay or slow-down (i.e. with an infinite energy source) to reach the center of our own galaxy from Earth.

Now, look at the hundreds of billions of galaxies beyond our own. Each one of those in total must contain hundreds of trillions of planets. Looking at the odds of our own solar system, it seems likely that there are millions of Earth-size planets around Sol-sized stars. Given the variety of life that has arisen on Earth through God's providence, what else might live on those planets? To say the no life could possibly have been sustained anywhere except Earth is rather queer, given the scope of our Cosmos.

There are worlds beyond imagination outside even our own local cluster of 4-5 galactic structures. Beyond those, far beyond, are even bigger clusters that could hold endless Earth-like planets and climates. Look: all the stars and shiny things we see in the sky are within our own galaxy! Their proximity to us makes them outshine the countless other entities beyond the glare of our own spiral. Simple causality does work its way... and to imagine that nothing of import has happened on all those planets for 15 billion+ years is laughable.

Of course, theology demands that any life on those planets be without a soul. The Creed says "for us men and for our salvation", God descended from Heaven and became incarnate of man. If there are aliens with souls to be saved, the Creed (and thus the infallible Church) are wrong. The hypostatic union must be wrong. After this, what is left? All crumbles to bits. The only way to rectify it would be to say "for us sentients and for our salvation..." :P
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#12
(12-01-2011, 06:27 AM)Laetare Wrote: The laws of causality, plausibility, non-contradiction, and identity do not put the notion out of reach. Look at the size of our Galaxy alone - 100 000 light years from side to side. One light year is about 6 000 billion/6 trillion miles, you know? Even if we were to reach the speed of light (a comical idea given our current technology), it would take 30 000 years, without delay or slow-down (i.e. with an infinite energy source) to reach the center of our own galaxy from Earth.

Now, look at the hundreds of billions of galaxies beyond our own. Each one of those in total must contain hundreds of trillions of planets. Looking at the odds of our own solar system, it seems likely that there are millions of Earth-size planets around Sol-sized stars. Given the variety of life that has arisen on Earth through God's providence, what else might live on those planets? To say the no life could possibly have been sustained anywhere except Earth is rather queer, given the scope of our Cosmos.

There are worlds beyond imagination outside even our own local cluster of 4-5 galactic structures. Beyond those, far beyond, are even bigger clusters that could hold endless Earth-like planets and climates. Look: all the stars and shiny things we see in the sky are within our own galaxy! Their proximity to us makes them outshine the countless other entities beyond the glare of our own spiral. Simple causality does work its way... and to imagine that nothing of import has happened on all those planets for 15 billion+ years is laughable.

Of course, theology demands that any life on those planets be without a soul. The Creed says "for us men and for our salvation", God descended from Heaven and became incarnate of man. If there are aliens with souls to be saved, the Creed (and thus the infallible Church) are wrong. The hypostatic union must be wrong. After this, what is left? All crumbles to bits. The only way to rectify it would be to say "for us sentients and for our salvation..." :P


All this stuff about extraterrestrial life is nothing but absurd speculation. Since until now no evidence has been observed, it is a loss of time. Does Br Consolmagno's interest in that matter serve for the highest Glory of God? I doubt it.
If there were ever purported aliens to encounter the mankind in the next future, the outcomes would be huge, so huge that I cannot imagine that God in His Wisdom wouldn't have warned us of this in the Scriptures.
No, on the contrary, I believe that the purported "flying saucers" and other UFOs manifestations that we cannot dismiss anyways, are very suspicious. I don't remember who is this  jewish author who considers them as pure devilish deceits.
See: http://thecomingepiphany.com/BookArticle....htm#_ftn3
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#13
Indeed; even if there were such species, God made us entirely incapable of running the course of His grand creation. We really ought to stay here until He comes...
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#14
(12-01-2011, 02:57 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Well, at least they want to convert them...

Are you sure about that? I thought they would be more apt to engage in "dialogue".
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#15
I think that God Almighty put a limit on ability to travel. There could be other races out there, but they would not necessarily be fallen, meaning conversion to the Faith is not applicable.They like Adam and Eve would speak to God directly.

tim
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#16
Tim, I think those of whom you speak are the Angels and the Heavenly Host.

IMHO, if there were other people's out there, it would have been revealed to us.

God created the heavens and the earth. I can't wrap my mind around the idea that there are other worlds. That would have been revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Genesis.

Since it is not revealed, they either do not exist, nor should thought be given to the possibility of their existence.

In other words, I don't see Carl Sagan being raised to the Altars.
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#17
(12-01-2011, 03:07 AM)strommer Wrote: uhhhh does the idea of acceptance of our Lord apply only to humans still?

God took on a human nature alone, so yes. In the hypostatic union divinity and humanity were united; not divinity, humanity, and the nature of any other rational species that might be out there.
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#18
St. Augustine Wrote:It is also asked whether we are to believe that certain monstrous races of men, spoken of in secular history,  have sprung from Noah’s sons, or rather, I should say, from that one man from whom they themselves were descended. For it is reported that some have one eye in the middle of the forehead; some, feet turned backwards from the heel; some, a double sex, the right breast like a man, the left like a woman, and that they alternately beget and bring forth: others are said to have no mouth, and to breathe only through the nostrils; others are but a cubit high, and are therefore called by the Greeks “Pigmies:”  they say that in some places the women conceive in their fifth year, and do not live beyond their eighth. So, too, they tell of a race who have two feet but only one leg, and are of marvellous swiftness, though they do not bend the knee: they are called Skiopodes, because in the hot weather they lie down on their backs and shade themselves with their feet. Others are said to have no head, and their eyes in their shoulders; and other human or quasi-human races are depicted in mosaic in the harbor esplanade of Carthage, on the faith of histories of rarities. What shall I say of the Cynocephali, whose dog-like head and barking proclaim them beasts rather than men? But we are not bound to believe all we hear of these monstrosities. But whoever is anywhere born a man, that is, a rational, mortal animal, no matter what unusual appearance he presents in color, movement, sound, nor how peculiar he is in some power, part, or quality of his nature, no Christian can doubt that he springs from that one protoplast. We can distinguish the common human nature from that which is peculiar, and therefore wonderful.

Going off St. Augustine here, it would seem that one could easily argue that any intelligent aliens that we were to find could be saved through the Church since they would be rational mortal animals.

On the other hand, it would seem to endanger the view of humanity that we find in some of the Fathers. For example, St. Athanasius thought that God had chosen the design of our bodies with the Incarnation in mind. He specifically chose a form that would be fitting for his Son to inhabit, so, in a certain sense, the Image of God in man extends beyond just our intelligence to even our physical appearance. I suppose in such a situation we could still say that man has some special place even if he is not alone.

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#19
Would God Almighty be obliged to tell us of another race He created, which did not fall, and that we could never travel be able to travel and visit them ?  I mean this is pure speculation on all levels without any evidence pro or con.

tim
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#20
(12-01-2011, 03:38 AM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(12-01-2011, 03:31 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: That, and there's just no proof for the existence of smart ET's.  No reason to believe there aren't animals in space though. 

Why would God make animals wander about in space?

Were not animals created for men? Does man not have dominion over all the beasts?

Yes.  That's exactly what I'm saying.  We are stewards over ALL of God's creation.  Not limited to what's on this planet.  If there are microbes floating around space, they must serve some useful purpose for us at some point.  

I'm not saying I believe it, but what I am saying is that the possibility isn't contradictory to what God revealed to us.
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