Pope Benedict XVI's astronomer: the Catholic Church welcomes aliens
#71
huh?
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#72
(12-01-2011, 03:53 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(12-01-2011, 03:41 PM)Laetare Wrote:
(12-01-2011, 02:41 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: All "creatures" ... where did He say that?

(12-01-2011, 02:49 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: I'm wondering to! I don't think you will see me preaching to rocks, trees, or animals.

Sorry about the delay brothers...

My Douay-Rheims-Challoner has our Lord saying, in Mark 16:15:

Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Wrote:15 Et dixit eis: Euntes in mundum universum prædicate Evangelium omni creaturæ. - And He said to them: Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Wider array of meaning that we had first thought? It certainly puts St. Francis of Assisi in context! :) Wisdom is not in the Earth, nor in the sea; man knows not her ways.

Something to think about ... not sure what it means in our regular non-hypothetical-aliens-existing everyday worldy context.  Preach to birds and stones?

I thought the meaning to be self-evident. But, this morning at Matins, Pope St. Gregory provided the answer. To be given in next post as my browser goes crazy at this point.

Happy Feast Day of St. Francis Xavier!

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#73
Quote:Reading 7
From the Holy Gospel according to Mark: 16:15-18

In that time Jesus said to his disciples: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. And so on.

Homily by Pope St Gregory the Great.
29th on the Gospels.

By the words every creature we may understand every tribe of the Gentiles. Of aforetime it had been said, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, Matth. x. 5, but now, Preach the Gospel to every creature, that, since the Jews had proudly rejected the preaching of the Apostles, that might become our gain which was the seal of their condemnation. But when the Eternal Truth sendeth forth His disciples to preach, what doth He but scatter seed over the field of the world? He scattereth abroad a few grains for seed, that He may afterward reap an abundant harvest in our faith.

Reading 8

The great harvest of faithful souls throughout the whole world would never have sprung up, if the hand of the Lord had not first scattered those chosen grains of preachers over the reasonable soil of men's minds. Then is written, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not, shall be damned. Now, perchance, thou sayest in thine heart I believe, and therefore I shall be saved. True, if to thy faith thou dost add works. He only hath a living faith whose life doth not give the lie to his profession. It is of this that Paul speaketh, where he saith of certain vain believers, They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him. Tit. i. 16.

Reading 9

And these signs shall follow them that believe In My name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. My brethren, these signs do not follow us. Do we, then, not believe? Nay. The truth is, these things were needful when the Church was young. That she might grow by the increase of the faithful, she needed to be nourished with miracles. So we, when we plant a young tree, continually water and tend it, till we see that it hath taken firm root in the earth but when once it hath taken firm root, it can grow of itself. Hence Paul saith of tongues Tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. i Cor. xiv. 22.

Great reading for the day, since St. Francis of Xavier had the gift of tongues in that the tribes he spoke to understood his preaching in the Indies in their own language. Much like that first Pentecost.

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#74
(12-03-2011, 02:47 AM)SPB Wrote:
(12-02-2011, 11:31 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: The pope's astronomer is a looney anyway.

Vetus I don't think that's very fair. He has advanced degrees and is an authority in his field. He is also a Religious and for that he should be given respect. You may disagree with him here (and for all we know, he was misquoted, or was being flippant, etc) but to call him a looney based on this thread alone is not like you. If you have some insider knowledge, best to keep it inside and not gossip. If you are going by this thread alone, it seems that he isn't a looney and if he is, there's no need to call him names, just point out where you think he errors and let that be enough.

He's a looney because:

1) He believes the aliens are "out there" which is, frankly, a pathetic belief for any serious Christian intellectual to hold.

2) He looks like a nerdier version of Back to the Future's Doc Brown, if that's even possible.

[Image: Guy-Consolmagno_1718604c.jpg]
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#75
(12-03-2011, 11:08 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-03-2011, 02:47 AM)SPB Wrote:
(12-02-2011, 11:31 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: The pope's astronomer is a looney anyway.

Vetus I don't think that's very fair. He has advanced degrees and is an authority in his field. He is also a Religious and for that he should be given respect. You may disagree with him here (and for all we know, he was misquoted, or was being flippant, etc) but to call him a looney based on this thread alone is not like you. If you have some insider knowledge, best to keep it inside and not gossip. If you are going by this thread alone, it seems that he isn't a looney and if he is, there's no need to call him names, just point out where you think he errors and let that be enough.

He's a looney because:

1) He believes the aliens are "out there" which is, frankly, a pathetic belief for any serious Christian intellectual to hold.

2) He looks like a nerdier version of Back to the Future's Doc Brown, if that's even possible.

[Image: Guy-Consolmagno_1718604c.jpg]

Admittedly, he appears to be quite the nerd, and I have seen him on television which seems to back up that impression.  But I hardly think it is charitable to jump from nerd to loon.
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#76
(12-02-2011, 05:02 AM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(12-02-2011, 04:56 AM)richness of tradition Wrote: I worry that if intelligent aliens are found,  the Catholic church is toast.
If humans are all there is why did God create all the cosmos out there?
As Sagan said it would seem to be an awful waste of space.

It's there for God's greater glory.  Who are we to say it's a waste of space if God likes it?  It doesn't have to have other beings in it to make it useful for Him, does it?

Good point actually.   Maybe God made the cosmos so vast in order to show us his greatness not because there are aliens out there.
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#77
(12-03-2011, 03:46 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(12-03-2011, 11:08 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(12-03-2011, 02:47 AM)SPB Wrote:
(12-02-2011, 11:31 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: The pope's astronomer is a looney anyway.

Vetus I don't think that's very fair. He has advanced degrees and is an authority in his field. He is also a Religious and for that he should be given respect. You may disagree with him here (and for all we know, he was misquoted, or was being flippant, etc) but to call him a looney based on this thread alone is not like you. If you have some insider knowledge, best to keep it inside and not gossip. If you are going by this thread alone, it seems that he isn't a looney and if he is, there's no need to call him names, just point out where you think he errors and let that be enough.

He's a looney because:

1) He believes the aliens are "out there" which is, frankly, a pathetic belief for any serious Christian intellectual to hold.

2) He looks like a nerdier version of Back to the Future's Doc Brown, if that's even possible.

[Image: Guy-Consolmagno_1718604c.jpg]

Admittedly, he appears to be quite the nerd, and I have seen him on television which seems to back up that impression.  But I hardly think it is charitable to jump from nerd to loon.

The evident Vetus offers could, at the most extreme, lead to him being called "heretical" or "unthinking" (I disagree and think these are not fair, but they could follow) and certainly he's a "nerd" (I think I'm a nerd too though, and don't think it's such a bad thing to be).

But "loon"?
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#78
Gang, this whole thing is absurd and underscores yet again the incredible auto-destruction that is taking place in the Church and thus society.

Since man has now for several decades doubted the Faith wholesale, humanity is chasing figments of its imagination; figments that are a composite of true things, true but corrupted things, and completely false things.

We know that there is a hierarchy of creation that extends beyond us and it is in Heaven.  For any neo-Catholic attempting to warp the Faith into a Star Trek fantasy, Heaven is the dominion of God to which the Elect are admitted.  It is not a 'feeling' or a 'state of mind' or a place we can fly to in this life.

The citizens of Heaven, besides the Saints, are somewhat known to us and include beings such as angels and cherubim and seraphim. 

Regarding 'aliens.'  Probably most of the stories involves them are fabricated, but they are fallen angels.  This isn't exactly avant garde theology; rather this is what we as Catholics understood.  Incidentally it is only in more recent times that we have seen an erruption in 'sightings' and this makes perfect sense.  After Luther and others tore apart the Church, all sorts of horrible things were able to come out and poison the minds of men.

And look at us today.  A society that murders its offspring for careless intimacy and then wants offspring without intimacy, a society that riots over junk made in pagan slave factories, a society that is ridden with all kinds of health problems, worships itself, doubts all matters of Faith, but chases after 'aliens.'

Now, what is even more tragic to me is that this astronomer probably thinks he is doing great things and is to some extent bolstering the Faith.  This is diabolical disorientation.

What we are to do is follow the Church, earnestly commit ourselves to devotions, and pray.  And not chase after absurd fads.
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#79
Consider a rather telling quote from the astronomer:

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do." 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/internation..._1_1116595

I see...
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#80
I don't necessarily see why that quotation is bad. Folk religion in the past has often gotten mixed in with superstition, which is not looked upon favorably by the Church. Obviously, you want to avoid rationalism as well, but that was a problem even before scientism became so widespread.
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