next time Eastern Orthodox complain of 1204, remind them of 1182
#71
(02-05-2012, 12:09 AM)MeanGene Wrote: I think you're drawing the wrong lesson from the story. St. Thomas realized that all of his life's work was nothing in comparison to the infinite majesty of God. His declaration tells us much more about heaven then it does his own work, because as any sensible person should know, nothing can compare with the infinite majesty of God. In my view it is essentially a lesson in humility. St. Thomas had worked his whole life to become essentially a peerless theologian and philosopher. Yet despite all of that he deemed his work as straw in comparison to heaven. If his work was straw, I can't even imagine what the work of my life would qualify as before the majesty of God. I guess my point is that if you walk away from that story thinking that it proves that St. Thomas' work was overrated you're completely missing the point (and making yourself look silly to boot.)

Yes, that is possible that I'm taking the wrong idea from it.  But did Aquinas say that's why he was burning it?  I don't know a lot about this story, but when I first heard about it a few years ago, I got the impression that he didn't really explain why he did it.  If that's not accurate, so be it.  But if it is, how do you know *you* are taking the right lesson from it?  If you take that story on its face, here's what we know: A man who spent his entire life making detailed scholastic explantions of God and how he relates to the created world then has a mystic experience of God, and decides that his work is straw and, like straw, is good for nothing but burning or bedding.  So do we know what Christ revealed to him in that vision, or did Aquinas keep it private?  If he didn't, and all we know from that point forward is that Aquinas had a revelation that made him decide to burn his works, then it is just a reasonable for me to say he found that his works were in error in comparison to what he had seen as it is for you to say he merely was shown he needed to learn humility, and it would be wrong for you to say you understanding is any better than mine, because you have nothing to corroborate your position over mine.  You merely "feel" that mine isn't the right one.

Also, if your understanding is correct, and his vision was merely showing him that he had barely scratched the surface, there was so much more that he didn't know, such to the point that Aquinas wanted to burn it, even if it's not the main point, it IS showing that the work is overrated, and apparently Christ said so himself.
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#72
(02-05-2012, 05:09 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Oh please, you really do give a new meaning to the word 'Ignorant'

If that's the attitude most easterners took, its no wonder the schism lasted so long...

It would be nice if the Aquinarians would at least choose another day of the week to burn incense to their god.
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#73
You may not like or understand Thomism, Melkite, but your attitude regarding this subject has been despicable. You act like a schismatic.

The Church herself has made a definite pronouncement regarding St. Thomas' work. Do you accept it, at least in principle, like her obedient son or do you rebel against it and mock it like a son of Satan?
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#74
(02-05-2012, 01:12 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: You may not like or understand Thomism, Melkite, but your attitude regarding this subject has been despicable. You act like a schismatic.

The Church herself has made a definite pronouncement regarding St. Thomas' work. Do you accept it, at least in principle, like her obedient son or do you rebel against it and mock it like a son of Satan?

Let me translate that into English:  :'(

How can something be accepted in principle if it's not accepted in practice?  What very little I have read of Aquinas, I have either found worded badly or outright objectionable.  But, for the vast majority that I still haven't read first hand, of course I admit it is possible there is nothing wrong with it.
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#75
(02-05-2012, 08:57 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 05:09 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Oh please, you really do give a new meaning to the word 'Ignorant'

If that's the attitude most easterners took, its no wonder the schism lasted so long...

It would be nice if the Aquinarians would at least choose another day of the week to burn incense to their god.

Melkite, you should know better than to act like a child.  :eyeroll:
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#76
(02-05-2012, 01:21 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:57 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 05:09 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Oh please, you really do give a new meaning to the word 'Ignorant'

If that's the attitude most easterners took, its no wonder the schism lasted so long...

It would be nice if the Aquinarians would at least choose another day of the week to burn incense to their god.

Melkite, you should know better than to act like a child.  :eyeroll:

Oh, you mean that's not standard fisheaters operating procedure?
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#77
(02-05-2012, 08:55 AM)Melkite Wrote: Also, if your understanding is correct, and his vision was merely showing him that he had barely scratched the surface, there was so much more that he didn't know, such to the point that Aquinas wanted to burn it, even if it's not the main point, it IS showing that the work is overrated, and apparently Christ said so himself.

No, it is not.

It is showing that the mystical experiences and the reality of God are beyond what humans can express. The relative difference is only relative. I mean, do the best written works concerning love compare well to love itself? Does the description of the beauty of a thing compare well to the actual beauty?

The writings of St. Thomas are of the highest quality.

St. Thomas, as a person, is a saint and in Heaven in the presence of God.

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#78
(02-05-2012, 01:12 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: You may not like or understand Thomism, Melkite, but your attitude regarding this subject has been despicable. You act like a schismatic.

The Church herself has made a definite pronouncement regarding St. Thomas' work. Do you accept it, at least in principle, like her obedient son or do you rebel against it and mock it like a son of Satan?

Well if one is to take him literally he is a de facto schismatic, its a shame that some Eastern Catholics are so insecure about their own heritage that inbetween bemoaning the fact that Rome is trying ecumenicism with the Russian Orthodox, complaining about so called latinisations, they spend the rest of the time bashing the theological heritage of the west. In other words doing what they accuse 'latins' of doing to them.

Don't get me wrong I'm a thomist, and so I'm bias but one can quite easily say 'I respect St Thomas Aquinas but I disagree with him on...' much like Suarez or Bellarmine or Bl Duns Scotus or Molina or any number of theologians. I myself find some of Duns Scotus' theology attractive and of course I have to read some Suarez and Bellarmine.

Bashing Doctors of the Church however, especially one so lauded and respected as St Thomas Aquinas, who happens to be the only theologian mentioned by name in Canon law which specifically avoids doing such things, is not merely disrespectful but imprudent and sinful. It is a shame that the one Eastern Catholic we have on the site (That I know of) is so utterly pathetic and anti-western, I yearn for the day when we can have an intelligent conversation with an eastern catholic that doesn't involve:
i)complaining about latinisations
ii)extolling the virtues of V2 and John Paul II
iii)claiming that there are only really 7 ecumenical councils
iv)Being rude

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#79
(02-05-2012, 01:23 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 01:21 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:57 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 05:09 AM)TrentCath Wrote: Oh please, you really do give a new meaning to the word 'Ignorant'

If that's the attitude most easterners took, its no wonder the schism lasted so long...

It would be nice if the Aquinarians would at least choose another day of the week to burn incense to their god.

Melkite, you should know better than to act like a child.  :eyeroll:

Oh, you mean that's not standard fisheaters operating procedure?

Yes, other people being jerks means you should be, too.  Smooth move.  :LOL:
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#80
(02-05-2012, 01:19 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 01:12 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: You may not like or understand Thomism, Melkite, but your attitude regarding this subject has been despicable. You act like a schismatic.

The Church herself has made a definite pronouncement regarding St. Thomas' work. Do you accept it, at least in principle, like her obedient son or do you rebel against it and mock it like a son of Satan?

Let me translate that into English:  :'(

How can something be accepted in principle if it's not accepted in practice?  What very little I have read of Aquinas, I have either found worded badly or outright objectionable.  But, for the vast majority that I still haven't read first hand, of course I admit it is possible there is nothing wrong with it.

The problem is most likely with you rather then the writing, though I did just read your signature so have to admit we can't really expect much  :eyeroll:
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