Denying the marriage debt
#41
(12-18-2011, 11:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: Regarding NFP, unfortunately many Neos distort its proper use, effectively using it as contraception. Listen to these for correctives:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200407...d-NFP.html

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200710...d-NFP.html

Yup. Nice post.
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#42
(12-18-2011, 01:13 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I have a feeling I'm going to get hate-mail for this, but here goes anyway:  you need to game her. Yeah, "game." Get some. If I were in your shoes, I'd start with this site -- and take it with a HUGE grain of salt, ignoring the secular, immoral, hedonistic aspects of it (and some out and out misogyny), sifting it for the gems:  http://heartiste.wordpress.com/  The power of sex is vastly underrated in the trad-world; there's not enough discussion of it and its power to keep married couples faithful and together forever, in addition to the supernatural, sacramental nature of marriage itself. Human nature is what it is, women are what they are, men are what they are (though there are bell curves for all the stereotypical feminine and masculine behaviors, of course), and knowing how women, as a group, tend to work, then zeroing in on your wife's particular needs, can only help you.

My bet:  she wants to feel your power and strength as a man. She wants to feel "in thrall" to you. She wants to feel "tiny" next to you -- safe, protected, and fully aware that you're in control (in a good, non-abusive way). "Game" her and see what happens... Check that site's archives.

That site gets pretty graphic in ways that might be an issue of temptation for some.  That, or disgusting to others.

My husband reads this site:
http://artofmanliness.com/
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#43
(12-18-2011, 01:13 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I have a feeling I'm going to get hate-mail for this, but here goes anyway:  you need to game her...http://heartiste.wordpress.com/  The power of sex is vastly underrated in the trad-world; there's not enough discussion of it and its power to keep married couples faithful and together forever,

Just checked out the site.  Hilarious!  Love it.  I can't believe our own Vox Clamantis reads this stuff!  It is such a true site when it comes to taking certain things off the pedestal.  I read Vox Day (not to be confused with our own forum owner) all the time, and he often will write articles touching on the nature of men and women.  "Game Theory" is a developing science, and the participants are usually unafraid to actually talk about it, and I would argue it is every man's duty to learn it, enact it, and retake the dignity that they lost in the last century. 
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#44
(12-19-2011, 01:26 AM)Arun Wrote:
(12-18-2011, 11:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: Regarding NFP, unfortunately many Neos distort its proper use, effectively using it as contraception. Listen to these for correctives:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200407...d-NFP.html

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200710...d-NFP.html

Yup. Nice post.

Yes, thank you, Jackson K. Eskew.

The traditional teaching of the Church is that NFP may only be used under certain very limited circumstances. It is not a decision that should be made willy-nilly in an attempt to maximize self-interest and manipulate God's will.

Again, the traditional teaching of the Church is that procreation is the primary end of marriage, so purposefully frustrating that end (even if it is done naturally) without an extraordinary need recognized by the Church's legislation on the topic is contrary to Church teaching.

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#45
(12-19-2011, 06:21 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 01:26 AM)Arun Wrote:
(12-18-2011, 11:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: Regarding NFP, unfortunately many Neos distort its proper use, effectively using it as contraception. Listen to these for correctives:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200407...d-NFP.html

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200710...d-NFP.html

Yup. Nice post.

Yes, thank you, Jackson K. Eskew.

The traditional teaching of the Church is that NFP may only be used under certain very limited circumstances. It is not a decision that should be made willy-nilly in an attempt to maximize self-interest and manipulate God's will.

Again, the traditional teaching of the Church is that procreation is the primary end of marriage, so purposefully frustrating that end (even if it is done naturally) without an extraordinary need recognized by the Church's legislation on the topic is contrary to Church teaching.

:eyeroll:

Obviously, no one is advocating sin. NFP may be a good choice for the OP's wife. Only they can make that decision. While I don't believe it is a must, using the guidance of a priest is helpful if you are not sure if you meet the conditions.

Also, if there is a hormonal issue going on with your wife, charting is very useful, important information in a proper diagnosis.
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#46
(12-19-2011, 09:14 AM)verenaerin Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 06:21 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 01:26 AM)Arun Wrote:
(12-18-2011, 11:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: Regarding NFP, unfortunately many Neos distort its proper use, effectively using it as contraception. Listen to these for correctives:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200407...d-NFP.html

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200710...d-NFP.html

Yup. Nice post.

Yes, thank you, Jackson K. Eskew.

The traditional teaching of the Church is that NFP may only be used under certain very limited circumstances. It is not a decision that should be made willy-nilly in an attempt to maximize self-interest and manipulate God's will.

Again, the traditional teaching of the Church is that procreation is the primary end of marriage, so purposefully frustrating that end (even if it is done naturally) without an extraordinary need recognized by the Church's legislation on the topic is contrary to Church teaching.

:eyeroll:

Why are you rolling your eyes? My post was information only--important information that had not yet been mentioned in the thread. Since this is a traditional Catholic forum, and since not all know the Church's teaching, it is good to represent this teaching for the well-being of those who may not know. It was not meant to be taken personally. It certainly wasn't an attack on you or anyone for that matter.
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#47
(12-19-2011, 12:02 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 09:14 AM)verenaerin Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 06:21 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(12-19-2011, 01:26 AM)Arun Wrote:
(12-18-2011, 11:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: Regarding NFP, unfortunately many Neos distort its proper use, effectively using it as contraception. Listen to these for correctives:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200407...d-NFP.html

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200710...d-NFP.html

Yup. Nice post.

Yes, thank you, Jackson K. Eskew.

The traditional teaching of the Church is that NFP may only be used under certain very limited circumstances. It is not a decision that should be made willy-nilly in an attempt to maximize self-interest and manipulate God's will.

Again, the traditional teaching of the Church is that procreation is the primary end of marriage, so purposefully frustrating that end (even if it is done naturally) without an extraordinary need recognized by the Church's legislation on the topic is contrary to Church teaching.

:eyeroll:

Why are you rolling your eyes? My post was information only--important information that had not yet been mentioned in the thread. Since this is a traditional Catholic forum, and since not all know the Church's teaching, it is good to represent this teaching for the well-being of those who may not know. It was not meant to be taken personally. It certainly wasn't an attack on you or anyone for that matter.

I wish that a more balanced view was given on a useful tool.

It just seems like every time NFP is mentioned, people come out of the woodwork to talk about how evil it can be.  There are tons of threads discussing "grave" reason and all the other requirements for NFP.  It's really not that hard, you either have grave reasons or you don't.

NFP can be seriously beneficial in terms of a marriage, emotionally, and spiritually.

I didn't mean to offend you with my eye rolling. My reaction is biased from our many other "fun" debates on NFP. :grin:

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#48
this is a pretty decent write up on marriage and morals written by a priest    http://www.ewtn.com/library/marriage/mormar.txt

some significant parts, in case you don't want to read the whole thing (but I recommend it):

".....Through it [Matrimony] grace acts on sex in every implication; the union of
two in one flesh, the sharing of the happiness and trials of
life, the formation of a family. The grace of the sacrament
strengthens the love on which it is based, drawing man and woman
together so that they symbolize the union of Christ with his
church. The marriage act itself and every human detail of their
life together are charged with grace. The first miracle wrought
by Christ, the changing of water into wine at the marriage-feast,
sets a divine approval on the very gaiety from which it starts."
.....
"Aversion from sex intercourse on the score of the needs of the
spiritual life must be checked by the doctrine that man is not a
spirit, and is not designed by God to be a spirit. Soul and body
fuse in him to form one personality. Perfection implies his
complete development. Spirit should master matter, the soul
dominate the body, but this is no detriment to the body, as is
shown by its state when the soul loses hold."
....
"BY marriage a man and woman grant to one another certain rights
over their bodies for the begetting of children, the increasing
of love, the healthy ordering of passion. The fulfilment of this
concession is a matter of justice, its denial an injustice,
though a couple who are still newly in love may smile at such
terms. Justice, however, is a living virtue and not confined to
cold legal forms.

The principle is this: whenever either the husband or the wife
seriously and reasonably asks for the marriage due the other is
bound to render it. Reasonably asks: no one in marriage engages
to become a convenience for another's passion; neither must force
their every wish on the other; they are equal and, particularly
as regards the marriage act, have the same rights. It is most
desirable that the action should be mutual. This will not be too
difficult if the two love one another in a human way and are
ready to be considerate and make sacrifices, if each tries to
serve the other, and if it is realized that for their happiness
together the act should be the comfort and content of both."

The Catholic Background to Sex
by T. G. WAYNE 
1936, LONGMANS, GREEN AND CO.


Nihil obstat:
EDOUARDUS CAN. MAHONEY, S.TH.D.
Censor deputatus.


Imprimatur:
JOSEPH BUTT,
Vic. Gen.

Westmonasterii,
die 27a JUNIS, 1936.

First Published, 1936
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#49
Is she nursing right now? 'Cause that can have a HUGE impact on libido. Also, with morning sickness...there are ways around that. I get super sick when I'm pregnant and there are pills out there (diclectin) that are a miracle!

If you have two close spaced babies right now...she could be overwhelmed with everything...as they get older it should get easier.

Lots of prayers.
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