Robert Sungenis, Was God Behind the Ambiguities of Vatican II
#1
Hey Guys,

      I ran across this Youtube video tonight, and thought it was very good.  It's long, but his insight into how our God works with His people is very eye opening. 





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#2
Peter, I have enjoyed your music, especially Up.  Welcome to Fisheaters.  Good to know that you are a traditional Catholic.
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#3
Peter, thanks very much for posting this.  I have both of the audio tapes which cover in its entirety the talk by Dr. Sungenis.  I have highly recommended them to a good number of people.  It is my belief that Dr. Sungenis has displayed remarkable insight here.  I became very convinced after listening to his talk that the thesis which he puts forth is not only plausible, but indeed may be very probably correct in explaining what went down in Vatican II and why it went down the way it did.  The CDs might be out of stock at present, but it appears that the talk can still be obtained on audio tapes.  See the "Audio Tape" category at http://www.catholicintl.com/index.php/store#ecwid:category=0&mode=category&offset=0&sort=nameAsc.

As far as the video that has just been posted on youtube, I only had the time to skip around in it from place to place.  What I saw of it impressed me.  The accompanying visual appeared to be done very well and helped to enhance what was being said.

If one wishes to get a snapshot view of what Dr. Sungenis, himself has stated about this talk he would do well to visit  http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/2680760/posts where he can see part of a February 2003 article from the Catholic Family News Magazine which I have taken the liberty of pasting between the asterisks below.

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Ambiguities in Vatican II, a Punishment from GodCatholic Family News Magazine ^ | February 2003 | Robert Sungenis

Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:18:28 AM by verdugo

"Why God would allow these "ambiguities" to occur in Vatican II. (and other magisterial documents)?

"Considering all that I have said thus far, especially concerning the ulterior motives of the liberal prelates and their virtual hijacking of Vatican II, I think Scripture has an answer as to why God would allow these "ambiguities" to occur. In short, there is an interesting working principle in Scripture. As a punishment for your sin, God will allow you to pursue, and be condemned by, what you sinfully desire. This is what I believe happened at Vatican II. The progressivist bishops and theologians sought for a way to push their heterodox ideas into the Church, so God allowed them to do so, as a witness and judgment against them. He would allow the Council to have its "ambiguities" so that those who would interpret them contrary to nineteen centuries of established Catholic dogma, would lead themselves into sin, and ultimately into God's judgment. Unfortunately, as is always the case, the sheep suffer for what the shepherds do wrong, and as a result, we have all been wandering in the spiritual desert of liberal theology for the past 40 years." (Article from Catholic Family News, Feb 2003, by Robert Sungenis)(1)

(1) In fact, the bad shepherds may be a chastisement for the sins of the sheep. Saint John Eudes, basing his words on Sacred Scripture, says that when God wants to punish his people, he sends them bad priests. See The Priest, His Dignity and Obligations, by Saint John Eudes, Chapter 2, "Qualities of a Holy Priest". (New York: P.J. Kenedy and Sons, 1947).
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James B. Phillips

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#4
Very good essay. Sungenis does good to limit his scope, but it can certainly apply to many episodes in Church history. As he even mentions during his discourse.

I think this is a must view for those in despair in the thread titled Why do some believe the Church is not in a crisis?

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#5
In my mind's eye he not only hit the nail on the head he drove the 16cc sinker through the 2x4 in one blow. In Romans !, Paul speaks about God giving the homos up to their wicked desires, allowing them to be depraved. I've thought this applies to the Sex Scandal in the Church, but maybe it goes further, and because of it, allows their errors to come in. Randy Engels comes to mind with her assertion that pederasty is part of Satanic worship. I can't see how this doesn't end in what some of the Fathers wrote about and called the Minor Chastisement.

tim
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#6
(12-18-2011, 09:45 PM)Tim Wrote: I can't see how this doesn't end in what some of the Fathers wrote about and called the Minor Chastisement.

tim

It's your turn to hit the nail on the head, Tim.  It most certainly will end in at least the Minor Chastisement.
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#7
(12-18-2011, 09:45 PM)Tim Wrote: In my mind's eye he not only hit the nail on the head he drove the 16cc sinker through the 2x4 in one blow. In Romans !, Paul speaks about God giving the homos up to their wicked desires, allowing them to be depraved. I've thought this applies to the Sex Scandal in the Church, but maybe it goes further, and because of it, allows their errors to come in. Randy Engels comes to mind with her assertion that pederasty is part of Satanic worship. I can't see how this doesn't end in what some of the Fathers wrote about and called the Minor Chastisement.

tim

Tim have you read Mrs. Engel's book? I have always wanted to read it. And if you did, would you recommend it?
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#8
Honestly I can't afford it, but for awhile about one-fourth of the book was online and I read that. Based on what I read, yes I would.

tim
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#9
This is a terrific talk.  It reminds me of an excerpt from Comte Paul Biver's book about the life of Pere Lamy, wherein the Blessed Virgin gives the good Priest insights into Lucifer's behavior:

"Lucifer obtained from the Father the disappearance of the monasteries in France.  She gave me the motive with a sigh.  If She is good and kind, he is tricky."  -Page 95
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#10
(12-18-2011, 11:06 PM)Tim Wrote: Honestly I can't afford it, but for awhile about one-fourth of the book was online and I read that. Based on what I read, yes I would.

tim

Yes, it is very expensive. Especially for a paperback. But, I think that is because she has to publish it herself. That is the only reason I have not purchased it long ago.
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