Robert Sungenis, Was God Behind the Ambiguities of Vatican II
#11
You know that might be a good idea to get it out there. She might publish it in PDF for less. No paper and no Printer could be a win win. She brings up in the part I read that this isn't the first go round with pederastic piests and monks. St. Peter Damien gave the Pope a remedy for them, and that was way back I think in the 1200's. It was rampant then. That goes hand and hand with what Sungenis is getting at. He compares the Church to Israel. The Kings of Israel were rotten except 3. And the reason they wanted a King is they wanted to be like the Nations. ( I hope the Monarchists here watch this video. ). I hope that doesn't extend in direct proportion to the Church. I'm rambling, but if pederasty is the key back in the 1200's the Church cum bad churchmen has been in trouble for a millenium, not just since Vatican II.

tim
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#12
I just checked Amazon and the Engels book is available for Kindle in two volumes, each one is $9.99.  Since the only used paperback listed as available through one of the used sellers Amazon lists was $68, that's cheap.  Of course, you might find a copy much cheaper at a used bookstore near you, or borrow it from a library.

Kindle books can now be read on cell phones, droids, computers, other e-readers, microwaves (just kidding about that last one!)  I am not sure if you have to own a Kindle to download Kindle books to other devices but it would be worth looking into.  The info is all on the Amazon site.

If you buy anything at Amazon, remember to go through the link at FE so Vox will get a little credit, help the forum.





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#13
(12-18-2011, 02:24 PM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote: Peter, I have enjoyed your music, especially Up.  Welcome to Fisheaters.  Good to know that you are a traditional Catholic.

lol

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#14
It's quite obvious now , even though most orthodox Catholics sensed this decades ago, that the entire Vatican 2 movement was a big lie. Of course there was a need for reform but NOT on the teaching of the faith or a changed mass but a reform of the lives of the Bishops, Pries
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#15
I think judging by St. Peter Damien's remedy, the pederastis satanic influence has been weaving itself in for a millenium. The modernists were the culmination of power from within attempting to take over starting in the late 1800's. After being pushed  underground for years preceeding  Vatican II, it was then their next chance at taking over. My best guess.

tim 
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#16
The only thing I slightly disagree on with Sungenis on in this video/audio commentary is that Vatican II doesn't explicitly state error but is ambiguous. The ambiguity is the error if you ask me, leaving the documents open to any interpretation means that they can be interpreted erroneously, since they are not infallible statements, and if they can be interpreted that way when compared to the previous magisterial teachings of the church, one would have to conclude that the documents do indeed contain errors.
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#17
I think you and he agree. I think he is saying on their face they appear Orthodox. It takes the intent to misinterpret them in a modernist way to make them heterodox.

tim
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#18
Exactly, Tim. And that is why the SSPX should accept them in the Light of Tradition. The benefits would be enormous, and along with FSPX and ICK and Traditionalists in Diocesan Parishes, we could join forces and accomplish something.

The other point I found very interesting in the presentation is the Law concerning Divorce and the 600 plus Laws God gave to the Church of Promise. That it would be impossible to follow them all. So you want more laws, do you? Here you go saith the Lord God, choke on them like you will choke on the fowl I will rain down on your camps.

We have barely touched on the rich meditations and ideas expressed here. It was really well done.
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#19
(12-20-2011, 11:45 AM)Adam Wayne Wrote: Exactly, Tim. And that is why the SSPX should accept them in the Light of Tradition.

The problem is the Popes and bishops do not accept them in the Light of Tradition since they believe that whatever they say is automatically tradition because of their office. 

Vatican II doesn't bind.  There is no positive good fruit as a direct result of its stated goals and policies. (There is little if any actual teaching in Vatican II )  It was as Malachi Martin called it a bad idea carried out badly and it should be considered as then-Cardinal Ratzinger called it a possibility in Principles of Catholic Theology, a complete waste of time. 

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#20
(12-18-2011, 09:45 PM)Tim Wrote: In my mind's eye he not only hit the nail on the head he drove the 16cc sinker through the 2x4 in one blow. In Romans !, Paul speaks about God giving the homos up to their wicked desires, allowing them to be depraved. I've thought this applies to the Sex Scandal in the Church, but maybe it goes further, and because of it, allows their errors to come in. Randy Engels comes to mind with her assertion that pederasty is part of Satanic worship. I can't see how this doesn't end in what some of the Fathers wrote about and called the Minor Chastisement.

tim

I haven't read Engels book, but I saw a few critiques of it when it was first published. Evedently, she makes unsubstantiated claims in the book. She is also the darling of the conspiracy theorists. I remember when she joined forces for awhile with Henry Makow, who is an extreme conspiracy theorist and practitioner of Raja Yoga, and his website has published a lot of anti-Catholic material. She doesn't have a problem with joining forces with anti-Catholics. Why is that?

Getting back to the OP, I think that there is something to Sungenis' ideas. But I think that God did have a plan with allowing the Council, if we believe, that is, that our Lord told the truth that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. We don't necessarily understand what His plan was or is, but we must pray and make sacrifices for sinners, as Our Lady said at Fatima. But that's not nearly so interesting, for some, as reading Ms. Engels sordid writings about the "satanic" Catholic Church.
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